Practice Management Member Conversations

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Thomas Coco AIA
Project Manager
Boca Raton FL
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NCARB has had a major price increase effective July 1 this year. There price for a new application certification fee went from $675 to $1500. These fees are roughly 5 times what NCEES the natinal engineers registration board charges for the same services. I have contacted them to ask if they can give any discount for an unemployed architect seeking a job with a requirement for NCARB and was told that would be impossible.
Below I have shown the fee schedule for NCARB and below that the fee schedule for NCEES.

Note: NCARB fees will change 1 July 2010. New fees are listed in red. 


Intern Development Program (IDP)

Total Application Fee: $285                    July 1: $350
This fee keeps your Record active for the first three years and includes one free transmittal of your Record for initial registration. New fee applies to new Record holders only.

Student or Recent Graduate (within 6 months): $100 to start
If you are a student or have graduated within six months of when you establish an NCARB Record, you may split the two payments. You may pay $100 when you start your Record and wait to pay the balance when you are ready to have your Record transmitted to a jurisdiction or when you request an Authorization to Test for the Architect Registration Examination® (ARE®). 

Annual Maintenance Fee: $60                 July 1: $75
There is an annual maintenance fee assessed after the first three years. It costs $75 each year to maintain your Record until you become registered. Please note: If your Record remains active through IDP/ARE until you apply/qualify for NCARB certification, NCARB will waive the certificate application fee of $1,500; plus, your renewal fee for the first three years after approval for certification will be half price.

Architect Registration Examination (ARE)

Each Division: $210

Rescheduling Fee: $35
In the event that you need to reschedule an exam division, a $35 rescheduling fee will apply. Rescheduling an existing appointment must take place no later than 12:00 noon ET (Eastern Time) on the third business day prior to the candidate's scheduled appointment. Please note that Saturday is considered a business day.

NCARB Certification

Annual Certificate Renewal: $190             July 1: $225
This fee must be paid each year to keep your Certificate in active status. This fee is discounted by 50 percent for the first three years upon approval for certification for architects who established their Records as interns and who have not allowed their Record to expire.

Annual (non-certified) Renewal:  $190      July 1: $225
This fee is charged annually to architects not qualifying for the Certificate, to maintain their NCARB Record in good standing.

New Certificate Application Fee: $675      July 1: $1,500
This fee covers one year of NCARB services to compile your NCARB Record and verify your credentials. Once you are approved for certification, this fee also maintains your Certificate Record in active status for one year. Please note: NCARB requires documentation from your base state confirming your ARE score history and licensure status. Some jurisdictions charge a fee to process an official report. NCARB will contact you directly, but it will be your responsibility to cover any required fees for this service.

Supplemental Application Fee: $100 to $500     July 1: $150 to $1,500
This fee, that reactivates your Record in pursuit of certification for former IDP Record holders, is $150 for each year or fraction of a year from the date your Record expired, up to a maximum of $1,500. If you reactivate through the supplemental application process, you will also be required to pay a $200 Certificate fee upon approval.

Transmittal: $300                                         July 1: $400
This fee must be paid for each transmittal of your NCARB Record to a U.S. registration board, Canadian provincial association, or foreign regulatory authority entitled under NCARB agreements or policies. 

Reactivation:  $225                                      July 1: $250
This fee must be paid to reactivate a Certificate Record that has lapsed for non-payment of renewal fees. In addition, all unpaid annual renewal fees and other outstanding fees must be paid before a Certificate Record can be reactivated.

NCEES fee Schedule

Fees

• Application fee: $150 ($100 if you have been licensed less than one year)
• Transmittal fee: $60 per recipient
• Annual renewal fee: $25
• Reinstatement of inactive record: $25 per year of inactivity, not to exceed $125

Don't get me started. NCARB's most known "service": losing files. Everyone I personally know who has been through the Certification process in the last 7 years had the unpleasant experience of having their file lost by NCARB and had to resubmit everything and start over (including myself--lost twice!). So now we're paying for the extra work they have to do looking for submitted applications that they lost.

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David Clarke AIA
Senior Architect
Williams Design Group, Inc.
Las Cruces NM
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How can we, AIA, correct the current direction of NCARB?

When does NCARB become subject to antitrust law? With most jurisdictions requiring an NCARB file or certificate for licensure; NCARB regularly and significantly raising fees; and a lack of alternate paths (without NCARB)- action is needed!

If I ever feel that the fees for AIA membership outweigh the benefits provided I could simply not renew and it would have little to no impact on my professional practice- sorry, AIA. I know many who have taken this path in recent years. In comparison, with NCARB, if I don't renew each year and then try for reciprocity in another state (without an alternate path offering) I would be required to pay all of my unpaid dues, a fine (or reactivation fee), plus a file transfer fee... or I could decline/not pursue the work. A three year lapse in certification would cost a minimum $1,300 plus state fees. Either choice has a definate impact on my practice of Architecture.

What do the NCARB fees pay for? ...document storage/retrieval and email to the state? ...a nice office on K St? I already feel that my hands are tied with NCARB. Seeing the fee increases each year adds to the frustration.

What can we do to effect a change?

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Keith P. Nelson, AIA
Associate III Architect
Wiss, Janney, Elstner Associates, Inc.
Fairfax, VA
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Thomas, I understand your gagging at the fees they charge.  My experience was even worse regarding fees.  I qualified through the BEA process, and it was outrageous.  On top of the application fees, fees for NAAB to review documents, etc., it was $3500 to review the dossier & go to the interview.  This was late 2009', and into 2010.  I would suspect it has gone up as well if the regular certification process has gone up.  I think it is a racket, and it is especially aggravating in these difficult economic times.

I'll say this, I experienced terrible customer service from them from 2005, when I started investigating the process, until about late 2008.  You couldn't get anything out of them in a timely fashion, or get them to return a phone call.  Apparently a change of management/reorganization lead to better customer service beginning in late 2008.  I expressed these same issues in the interview process, and was told by the interviewer my comments would be passed on.

I don't have any suggestions.  Unfortunately they are the gate keepers, and if you want the certification you have to pay the piper, and they know it.


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Richard Mason AIA, NCARB
Architect
Patterson Architects, Inc.
Bryan TX
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I would say why do it?  I have my license in NY and in CA, earned well before the whole IDP requirement thing.  In California an individual seeking a reciprocal license STILL must take the state supplemental exam regardless of NCARB or if one has taken the ARE.  I believe most states will still accept your original state's certification for reciprocation, it may just take a little longer to do the paperwork.

While I'm sure there is some reason that someone out there must have it, all that money and "file creation" effort just doesn't seem to make sense to add "NCARB" after your name:  Heck, the AIA after our names is pricey enough, especially now!
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Michael Elia AIA
NTD Architecture
San Dimas CA
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I have had recent interaction with NCARB management as an IDP Educator Coordinator. I went to the Educator Coordinator Conference in Chicago this summer as well as have had several conversations via phone and online on a variety of things. First, remember that your state board of architects chooses to be a member of NCARB. The state boards don't want to be saddled with all of the intricate but necessary things NCARB does. The don't want to write and grade the ARE; the don't want to create, track, and administer their own IDP; they don't want to create a system that validates everyone's school transcripts; and they sure don't want to deal with qulalifications of reciprocity. NCARB has spent MILLIONS of dollars creating the digital ARE and figuring out how to grade the solutions fairly. Plus, the ARE is in a constant state of upgrade. In the bigger picture, their challenges are numerous as there are more licenses being retired than new ones being created. They are keenly aware of their increased fees but are forced to balance that with their required demands that the profession places on them with diminishing membership. I am not defending them for the sake of defending them, but I have gotten to know the strength and professionalism of their management, they are performing a critical role for our profession, and frankly, we would have no functioning practice without them...... 

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Robert Kohler AIA
Architect
Kohler Design Office, Inc.
Fayetteville AR
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Original Message:
Sent: 11-18-2010 11:43
From: Michael Elia
Subject: NCARB Fees


I would say why do it?  I have my license in NY and in CA, earned well before the whole IDP requirement thing.  In California an individual seeking a reciprocal license STILL must take the state supplemental exam regardless of NCARB or if one has taken the ARE.  I believe most states will still accept your original state's certification for reciprocation, it may just take a little longer to do the paperwork.

While I'm sure there is some reason that someone out there must have it, all that money and "file creation" effort just doesn't seem to make sense to add "NCARB" after your name:  Heck, the AIA after our names is pricey enough, especially now!
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Michael Elia AIA
NTD Architecture
San Dimas CA
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Michael Clark AIA
Director Of Design
H&H Design-Build
New Albany IN
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I agree that some of the new NCARB fees have gotten really steep!  But I use NCARB quite often and could not do my business without them.  The Monograms are great learning tools, whether you take them for CEU's or for knowledge.  I am licensed in over 30 states and credit NCARB with making it much easier than going it alone. 

I wish NCARB would increase the fees on someone like me, who uses their services frequently, instead of the first time members or the infrequent users.  When I requested licensure in another state, I did so knowing that it would increase my business income and as such, I would have willingly paid a higher fee. 




Original Message:
Sent: 11-21-2010 14:16
From: Robert Kohler
Subject: NCARB Fees

I have had recent interaction with NCARB management as an IDP Educator Coordinator. I went to the Educator Coordinator Conference in Chicago this summer as well as have had several conversations via phone and online on a variety of things. First, remember that your state board of architects chooses to be a member of NCARB. The state boards don't want to be saddled with all of the intricate but necessary things NCARB does. The don't want to write and grade the ARE; the don't want to create, track, and administer their own IDP; they don't want to create a system that validates everyone's school transcripts; and they sure don't want to deal with qulalifications of reciprocity. NCARB has spent MILLIONS of dollars creating the digital ARE and figuring out how to grade the solutions fairly. Plus, the ARE is in a constant state of upgrade. In the bigger picture, their challenges are numerous as there are more licenses being retired than new ones being created. They are keenly aware of their increased fees but are forced to balance that with their required demands that the profession places on them with diminishing membership. I am not defending them for the sake of defending them, but I have gotten to know the strength and professionalism of their management, they are performing a critical role for our profession, and frankly, we would have no functioning practice without them...... 

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Robert Kohler AIA
Architect
Kohler Design Office, Inc.
Fayetteville AR
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Frankly I am not sure I agree that we would have no functioning practice without NCARB.  We had one before them and we would continue to without them - everyone and everything can and will be replaced (and everyone and everything eventually is).

Comparing licensure tracks to the 80's, one thing is apparent - we have made it far more difficult and expensive to become and remain an Architect (particularly to become one - the total investment required in the IDP is substantial).  The question I have is whether we are minting better Architects than we did under the old schemes.  I don't know how one might measure that progress, but unless we are convinced that a new graduate who successfully runs the administrative and financial gauntlet now standing between them and licensure is better than his or her counterpart from 30 years ago who didn't face those obstacles, we have to question whether those obstacles should remain

As to reciprocity,we now have a national building code, and our other regional differences (which were once the basis for the reciprocity schemes in the first instance) have largely melted away.  Reciprocity isn't at all the issue we make it out to be, but then again, maintaining it as an issue does militate in favor of NCARB (or something like it).  That aside, one must indeed question whether the reciprocity question is as weighty as we sometimes mistake it to be.  Here in SE Michigan, were I to seek to cross over the border and practice in Toledo Ohio (about 50 miles away) the reality is I am as competent there as here, without the need to maintain a separate file service, the need to evaluate and verify my education, etc.  That is true for all of us with a limited number of regional exceptions where certain design criteria come into play that we may not be familiar with in our immediate locale (for example, here in SE Michigan we don't worry about hurricanes and they don't affect building design - yet I can get full reciprocity in Florida, where they do worry about them and where they do affect building design, without any additional steps other than transmitting my file).  Reciprocity is the life blood of NCARB so they of course argue it is of critical import.  In reality?  Perhaps not quite so much . . . .

I realize NCARB was created for a valid set of reasons.  I wonder today whether NCARB remains true to those founding reasons or whether they have become accustomed to growing largess and have crossed over into a realm not of service to state boards, but self aggrandizement and self perpetuation. 

Everything must be periodocally re-evaluated or it gets stale.  Perhaps it is time for that to occur with NCARB



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Frederick Butters FAIA, Esq.
Attorney
Southfield MI
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Robert,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.  I am pleased that someone has taken the opportunity to describe the value that one receives from NCARB in lieu of describing what one may not receive.  Positivity is expansive.

Perusing these forums my take is that we are asking all the wrong questions.  In lieu of an expansive mindset, one that is authentic and creative, we consistently create a constricting atmosphere....if we cannot successfully expand our work, then the other guy has to be likewise constricting so we can manage and maintain fairness.

What if we decide to be creative and expansive with our designs and practices?  Then it won't matter what NCARB charges; our own worth, our own value, will more than compensate for the additional costs.

Why aren't we creating the value that we desire?  Why don't we recognize our own worth?

Why are we not standing up and believing in the creative value that we as architects provide the public?

Those are the questions I commit to answering.  We can choose to think differently.

Best,
Steve Haber

www.linkedin.com/in/stevehabergroup




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Steven Haber AIA
Principal
Steven E. Haber, AIA
Cincinnati OH
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Original Message:
Sent: 11-21-2010 14:16
From: Robert Kohler
Subject: NCARB Fees

I have had recent interaction with NCARB management as an IDP Educator Coordinator. I went to the Educator Coordinator Conference in Chicago this summer as well as have had several conversations via phone and online on a variety of things. First, remember that your state board of architects chooses to be a member of NCARB. The state boards don't want to be saddled with all of the intricate but necessary things NCARB does. The don't want to write and grade the ARE; the don't want to create, track, and administer their own IDP; they don't want to create a system that validates everyone's school transcripts; and they sure don't want to deal with qulalifications of reciprocity. NCARB has spent MILLIONS of dollars creating the digital ARE and figuring out how to grade the solutions fairly. Plus, the ARE is in a constant state of upgrade. In the bigger picture, their challenges are numerous as there are more licenses being retired than new ones being created. They are keenly aware of their increased fees but are forced to balance that with their required demands that the profession places on them with diminishing membership. I am not defending them for the sake of defending them, but I have gotten to know the strength and professionalism of their management, they are performing a critical role for our profession, and frankly, we would have no functioning practice without them...... 

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Robert Kohler AIA
Architect
Kohler Design Office, Inc.
Fayetteville AR
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Brion Sargent, AIA
Dallas TX
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The bottom line is that we are service providers and for the most part work very hard to satisfy our clients. I think the issue is customer service. The impression I get from my interactions with NCARB is that they are doing me a huge favor. It would go a long way with me if I could get direct and prompt answers to my questions, an apology when my files have been lost, a return call to my inquiries, an email reminder if my fees are late.  


Original Message:
Sent: 11-22-2010 08:45
From: Steven Haber
Subject: NCARB Fees


Robert,

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.  I am pleased that someone has taken the opportunity to describe the value that one receives from NCARB in lieu of describing what one may not receive.  Positivity is expansive.

Perusing these forums my take is that we are asking all the wrong questions.  In lieu of an expansive mindset, one that is authentic and creative, we consistently create a constricting atmosphere....if we cannot successfully expand our work, then the other guy has to be likewise constricting so we can manage and maintain fairness.

What if we decide to be creative and expansive with our designs and practices?  Then it won't matter what NCARB charges; our own worth, our own value, will more than compensate for the additional costs.

Why aren't we creating the value that we desire?  Why don't we recognize our own worth?

Why are we not standing up and believing in the creative value that we as architects provide the public?

Those are the questions I commit to answering.  We can choose to think differently.

Best,
Steve Haber

www.linkedin.com/in/stevehabergroup




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Steven Haber AIA
Principal
Steven E. Haber, AIA
Cincinnati OH
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Original Message:
Sent: 11-21-2010 14:16
From: Robert Kohler
Subject: NCARB Fees

I have had recent interaction with NCARB management as an IDP Educator Coordinator. I went to the Educator Coordinator Conference in Chicago this summer as well as have had several conversations via phone and online on a variety of things. First, remember that your state board of architects chooses to be a member of NCARB. The state boards don't want to be saddled with all of the intricate but necessary things NCARB does. The don't want to write and grade the ARE; the don't want to create, track, and administer their own IDP; they don't want to create a system that validates everyone's school transcripts; and they sure don't want to deal with qulalifications of reciprocity. NCARB has spent MILLIONS of dollars creating the digital ARE and figuring out how to grade the solutions fairly. Plus, the ARE is in a constant state of upgrade. In the bigger picture, their challenges are numerous as there are more licenses being retired than new ones being created. They are keenly aware of their increased fees but are forced to balance that with their required demands that the profession places on them with diminishing membership. I am not defending them for the sake of defending them, but I have gotten to know the strength and professionalism of their management, they are performing a critical role for our profession, and frankly, we would have no functioning practice without them...... 

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Robert Kohler AIA
Architect
Kohler Design Office, Inc.
Fayetteville AR
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Here is a posting I wrote over the summer for a questionnaire from AIA National to all the Component Presidents.

Did anyone notice that as of July 1, 2010 that NCARB raised all of their fees? I noticed because they sent out a mailer to me two weeks prior stating you better hurry to beat the increases. Now that I am a sole proprietor (as opposed to being currently unemployed) practicing on the Delmarva Peninsula, I figured I try to get reciprocity in the neighboring states of Delaware and Virginia as to expand my market. This would require me to obtain a NCARB Certificate. When I first got registered in the state of Maryland back in 2002 I inquired about getting a NCARB Certificate, but since I did not have a professional degree (Bachelor of Architecture of Masters of Architecture) I would have to work as a registered architect for 6 years before I could get the NCARB Certificate. Now that I've been registered for 8 years and I want to save money I called NCARB to try to get the NCARB Certificate and they claim that I have to go through an additional program called BEA (Broadly Experienced Architect) because I do not have a NAAB accredited degree, only professional degrees are accredited by the NAAB. Honestly I do not think that was the case when I entered Clemson University or when I graduated, I remember that the University was accredited. So I could possibly get the NCARB Certificate I just have to complete the BEA program, which take 6 to 18 months to be evaluated and COSTS $7,000. They would evaluate my education and profession to see if I have enough architectural history or structural engineering education/ experience. I cannot understand how an NCARB employee probably with a Political Science background, who would not know the difference between a double wide and Prairie Style, can judge me. I'm a Registered Architect, I took the same A.R.E. as everyone else has (since the exam went to computer), so why exclude me now?

Why don't we streamline all these organizations; NCARB, NAAB and State boards of Architecture for the sole purpose of enhancing the profession of architecture and architects in general, instead of robbing them blind.

Chris Ferger, AIA, LEED AP, President of the AIA Chesapeake Bay Chapter

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Christopher Ferger AIA
Chris Ferger Architects
Salisbury MD
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Original Message:
Sent: 11-21-2010 14:16
From: Robert Kohler
Subject: NCARB Fees

I have had recent interaction with NCARB management as an IDP Educator Coordinator. I went to the Educator Coordinator Conference in Chicago this summer as well as have had several conversations via phone and online on a variety of things. First, remember that your state board of architects chooses to be a member of NCARB. The state boards don't want to be saddled with all of the intricate but necessary things NCARB does. The don't want to write and grade the ARE; the don't want to create, track, and administer their own IDP; they don't want to create a system that validates everyone's school transcripts; and they sure don't want to deal with qulalifications of reciprocity. NCARB has spent MILLIONS of dollars creating the digital ARE and figuring out how to grade the solutions fairly. Plus, the ARE is in a constant state of upgrade. In the bigger picture, their challenges are numerous as there are more licenses being retired than new ones being created. They are keenly aware of their increased fees but are forced to balance that with their required demands that the profession places on them with diminishing membership. I am not defending them for the sake of defending them, but I have gotten to know the strength and professionalism of their management, they are performing a critical role for our profession, and frankly, we would have no functioning practice without them...... 

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Robert Kohler AIA
Architect
Kohler Design Office, Inc.
Fayetteville AR
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This is less about NCARB fees than it is in response to Mr. Ferger's posting. 

If you feel confident that you graduated from a NAAB accredited program at Clemson, then it seems to be worth your time to investigate and argue the point with NCARB.  Many colleges of architecture have restructured their professional-level programs in the last 10-15 years; most going from 5-year B. Arch degrees to 4-year B. Environ (or similar) first-degrees and 6-year M. Arch professional degrees.  Someone viewing currently accredited programs may not recognize that previous bachelor degrees were professional programs. 

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Sheila Snider FAIA
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Original Message:
Sent: 11-23-2010 09:39
From: Christopher Ferger
Subject: NCARB Fees

Here is a posting I wrote over the summer for a questionnaire from AIA National to all the Component Presidents.

 

Did anyone notice that as of July 1, 2010 that NCARB raised all of their fees? I noticed because they sent out a mailer to me two weeks prior stating you better hurry to beat the increases. Now that I am a sole proprietor (as opposed to being currently unemployed) practicing on the Delmarva Peninsula, I figured I try to get reciprocity in the neighboring states of Delaware and Virginia as to expand my market. This would require me to obtain a NCARB Certificate. When I first got registered in the state of Maryland back in 2002 I inquired about getting a NCARB Certificate, but since I did not have a professional degree (Bachelor of Architecture of Masters of Architecture) I would have to work as a registered architect for 6 years before I could get the NCARB Certificate. Now that I've been registered for 8 years and I want to save money I called NCARB to try to get the NCARB Certificate and they claim that I have to go through an additional program called BEA (Broadly Experienced Architect) because I do not have a NAAB accredited degree, only professional degrees are accredited by the NAAB. Honestly I do not think that was the case when I entered Clemson University or when I graduated, I remember that the University was accredited. So I could possibly get the NCARB Certificate I just have to complete the BEA program, which take 6 to 18 months to be evaluated and COSTS $7,000. They would evaluate my education and profession to see if I have enough architectural history or structural engineering education/ experience. I cannot understand how an NCARB employee probably with a Political Science background, who would not know the difference between a double wide and Prairie Style, can judge me. I'm a Registered Architect, I took the same A.R.E. as everyone else has (since the exam went to computer), so why exclude me now?

 

Why don't we streamline all these organizations; NCARB, NAAB and State boards of Architecture for the sole purpose of enhancing the profession of architecture and architects in general, instead of robbing them blind.

 

Chris Ferger, AIA, LEED AP, President of the AIA Chesapeake Bay Chapter

-------------------------------------------
Christopher Ferger AIA
Chris Ferger Architects
Salisbury MD
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Original Message:
Sent: 11-21-2010 14:16
From: Robert Kohler
Subject: NCARB Fees

I have had recent interaction with NCARB management as an IDP Educator Coordinator. I went to the Educator Coordinator Conference in Chicago this summer as well as have had several conversations via phone and online on a variety of things. First, remember that your state board of architects chooses to be a member of NCARB. The state boards don't want to be saddled with all of the intricate but necessary things NCARB does. The don't want to write and grade the ARE; the don't want to create, track, and administer their own IDP; they don't want to create a system that validates everyone's school transcripts; and they sure don't want to deal with qulalifications of reciprocity. NCARB has spent MILLIONS of dollars creating the digital ARE and figuring out how to grade the solutions fairly. Plus, the ARE is in a constant state of upgrade. In the bigger picture, their challenges are numerous as there are more licenses being retired than new ones being created. They are keenly aware of their increased fees but are forced to balance that with their required demands that the profession places on them with diminishing membership. I am not defending them for the sake of defending them, but I have gotten to know the strength and professionalism of their management, they are performing a critical role for our profession, and frankly, we would have no functioning practice without them...... 

-------------------------------------------
Robert Kohler AIA
Architect
Kohler Design Office, Inc.
Fayetteville AR
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