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  • 1.  Partner or Parasite: how do you feel about your software?

    Posted 02-13-2012 09:58 PM
    This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Practice Management Member Conversations and Housing Knowledge Community .
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    Does your software vendor feel more like a partner - or a parasite


    A decade ago, I didn't mind paying what at the time seemed a fairly high price for unfriendly but workable software.  After all, it's a necessary tool.  Back then, expensive professional tools used to last a long time.  No more it seems.  These days, software from companies like Autodesk 'expire' after a few years - meaning you can't reinstall the software if your computer crashes.  In fact, a 'subscription' (yearly fee whether you want updates or not) is now required.  To make that stick, the file format is intentionally not backward compatible.  And of course software costs continue to escalate - even as business continues to be poor.


    Am I the only one shocked at $13,000 for a 'required' upgrade for 3 seats?  Buy by March: 'or else'!


    Am I the only one that cringes at being asked to sign up for an annual subscription for upgrades that I don't need or want?


    Am I the only one with a feeling that if a fraction of the 86,000 members of the AIA put up a fraction of what we are each spending each year on software, we could buy or develop our own tools - and control our destiny and costs? 


    Fees down, costs up; upgrades forced by threats of being orphaned. 

    Am I the only one with a creepy feeling that we have a parasite infesting our profession?



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    Michael Malinowski AIA
    AIA Director - California Region
    Applied Architecture, Inc.
    Sacramento CA
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  • 2.  RE:Partner or Parasite: how do you feel about your software?

    Posted 02-14-2012 08:46 AM


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    Michael Clark AIA
    Director Of Design
    H&H Design-Build
    New Albany IN
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    I understand exactly what you are saying and every year, at renewal time, I ask the same question.  Last year, I cancelled our specification software licenses.  I did not think I needed to pay for an upgrade every year and have since developed a standard company master specification based on information gleamed from the product specifications on the internet. 

    On the other hand, I have retained my design software subscription, because I have to.  By forcing myself and my staff to learn everything they can about the software, I hope to justify the cost by increasing productivity.  There have been several instances where the software has proven it's worth and with each new version, I look for ways it will help pay for itself. 







  • 3.  RE:Partner or Parasite: how do you feel about your software?

    Posted 02-14-2012 10:29 AM

    I have felt that this is the case for some time now.  The profession has only itself to blame however.  As a group we have run to the slaughter.  Senior architects have been lazy in learning software, choosing instead to see it as a technical skill that is below them, the domain of the intern and young professional.  This in turn has lead the youth to see the skill as a differentiator and way into the profession.  Once entrenched, these young professionals have the ability to control the production of documents, but without the background experience to do so efficiently and competently.  Elder professionals become captive to their own hubris, and unable to challenge the judgement of the young, technically savvy architects.  Both design and production become activities performed without the discipline that elder architects could and should bring to project management.

    In the meantime, the software companies continue to market their products not so much to the AEC industry professional firms, but rather to the client organizations who then demand of their design consultants up-date to the latest versions and software capabilities, forcing us to adopt each and every new issue that comes out.  At the same time, the software companies sell access through their systems to vendors of construction products, who are eager to use the software as a way to gain direct access to the production process and get their products into drawings and specifications, preferably in a non-competitive manner.

    If we were to take a critical look at BIM and the benefits that it brings, we might find that many of those benefits are simply treating the symptoms of a greater disease, the cure for which is a more comprehensive overhaul of the industry.  The need for collaboration of teams and vendors is a symptom of the greater disease, which is the necessity to put together teams in the first place, the cure for which is horizontal integration among disciplines in design, engineering and construction into turn-key organizations.  The greatest obstacle to this is the marketing method used to sell design services, which is based on relationships, not best value nor highest competence in the market.  The obstacle to fixing this problem is legislation and the profession's aversion to the idea of competing based on price.  If competition is not based on price, then what is it based on?  Only price based competition can be fair competition.  A revolution of this sort would put architects back in the position of power, but so few architects truly understand their own business, that it is unlikely to change any time soon.

    The software industry is not the only, nor the largest parasite that pervades the profession.  The construction industry has been exploiting the profession of architecture and consulting engineering for decades, making at least three times the margins we do.  Again, we can't blame them, it is our own hubris that allows us to be easy targets!



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    Alan Burcope AIA, MBA, LEED AP
    Saint Louis MO
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  • 4.  RE:Partner or Parasite: how do you feel about your software?

    Posted 02-14-2012 05:41 PM

    I'll start with an analogy, it may not be the best but I think it will help get the point across. Automakers spend millions of dollars a year on their design tools for a single car design. Not just software, but hardware too. Software to design the 3D geometry, software to test structural integrity and durability of parts, hardware to print 3D scale models for wind tunnel testing and so on. A modern car is no doubt a highly complex thing. Yes, automakers also pay a yearly subscription fee for all their design software.

    Now, take a building design. I would venture to say there are more parts that go into a building, than into a car. Not only that, one is asking teams from multiple companies to design different systems that all work together. Further, a different company has to interpret the design intent and build the thing. On top of that, clients are starting to want as-built models of their project for FM use downstream. Then, one has to consider that a building is made up of hundreds to thousands of components from many varying manufacturers. If you ask me, the complexities of a building design far outweigh that which the auto industry deals with. On top of that, we only get to build the thing once, unless one gets lucky and ends up with mirrored buildings on a single site (even then it's not that simple).

    To address Michael Malinowski statement below, depending on pricing at the time, a BRAND NEW single seat of Revit, with a 1 year subscription costs $6220 MSRP (we all know one can get the software for less than MSRP, right?). After one year, it costs $725 MSRP every year to maintain and keep that subscription current. So, it should only cost $2175 MSRP to renew this subscription of 3 seats for one year. Even if this was a renewal for a 3 year subscription, it would only amount to $6525 MSRP. This tells a story right there - it looks like the subscription was allowed to expire and waited to renew which is always more expensive. It's like buying your software all over again from scratch almost, which likely explains his high cost he listed. Exorbitant - yes, but if your software reseller was doing their job, it should have been explained. So in this case, maybe they were not doing any favors?

    Most software companies today charge a subscription fee - Microsoft, Adobe, Autodesk, Deltek and more. Don't get me wrong, I don't like having to pay for these fees any more than the next guy. However, it seems that the entire software industry has moved to this subscription model to ensure they have a continued income stream for their shareholders. So, to be fair, we should point the stick at all software companies, not just Autodesk (makers of AutoCAD/Revit). The entire business ecosystem seems to revolve around profit. Profit only comes when there is a need for something new or so it seems. Hardware and software companies seem to feed off this cycle too. The more a software company develops to automate something, the more the hardware needs to advance to run the software and so on. Companies across many industries are finding themselves facing the software subscription pricing model.

    As far as buying/developing our own tools, again, one should think about all software makers - Microsoft, Adobe, Deltek - not just Autodesk. Now we are talking about dedicating significant resources to try and develop tools that rival with what these companies have achieved - especially when we don't have experience in that sector. One should consider this is something across all industries that use technology. If there is a computer involved, one will have software and hardware to deal with sooner or later. I would take a guess that developing a software tool from the ground up can take a team 3-5 years, depending on the complexities involved. What would that investment cost? What version of OS will it run on and will it be compatible with it when its dev cycle is complete? Who will maintain the software & hardware it runs on over the years?

    Another way to look at it is, what if you went back to hand drafting to avoid software subscription fees? How much would you pay annually for labor and materials to do what you can with your professional tools?

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    Steve Bennett
    CAD Manager
    HMC Architects
    Irvine CA
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    Does your software vendor feel more like a partner - or a parasite

    A decade ago, I didn't mind paying what at the time seemed a fairly high price for unfriendly but workable software.  After all, it's a necessary tool.  Back then, expensive professional tools used to last a long time.  No more it seems.  These days, software from companies like Autodesk 'expire' after a few years - meaning you can't reinstall the software if your computer crashes.  In fact, a 'subscription' (yearly fee whether you want updates or not) is now required.  To make that stick, the file format is intentionally not backward compatible.  And of course software costs continue to escalate - even as business continues to be poor.

    Am I the only one shocked at $13,000 for a 'required' upgrade for 3 seats?  Buy by March: 'or else'!

    Am I the only one that cringes at being asked to sign up for an annual subscription for upgrades that I don't need or want?

    Am I the only one with a feeling that if a fraction of the 86,000 members of the AIA put up a fraction of what we are each spending each year on software, we could buy or develop our own tools - and control our destiny and costs? 

    Fees down, costs up; upgrades forced by threats of being orphaned. 

    Am I the only one with a creepy feeling that we have a parasite infesting our profession?
    -------------------------------------------
    Michael Malinowski AIA
    AIA Director - California Region
    Applied Architecture, Inc.
    Sacramento CA
    -------------------------------------------



  • 5.  RE:Partner or Parasite: how do you feel about your software?

    Posted 02-15-2012 10:21 AM
    The idea of the profession developing its own software is impractical for too many reasons to list.  The idea of going back to hand drafting is a better one, in my opinion, but also impractical, but less so if the profession were to take a proactive approach to reinventing the business model we use.

    The symptoms being discussed here are the result of a much more broad disease.  If architecture firms were able to directly pass the cost of software upgrades, training and hardware on to clients, we would not be having this discussion.  But unfortunately, architects have no pricing power.  Outrageously, it is the result of our own doing.  We intentionally and systematically clip our own wings and sacrifice our ability to competitively price our services.  Ridiculous to any other capitalist business institution or profession, including physicians.

    So long as the costs of things like software remain invisible to client and client organizations, they will continue to demand them, shifting the cost to us, who must, at least temporarily absorb these costs and wait for the slow hand of market forces to rise the tide of usual and customary fees.  In the meantime other demands are made, companies lose money and go out of business, and so on, and so on.

    It is the profession's aversion to business that makes us bad business people and a poor profession.  While we focus our conversations on sustainability, aesthetics, "design matters," and avoid discussions surrounding the collective business of our profession with an almost religious zeal, we will continue to be exploited like naive child laborers in a third world country.


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    Alan Burcope AIA, MBA, LEED AP
    Saint Louis MO
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  • 6.  RE:Partner or Parasite: how do you feel about your software?

    Posted 02-15-2012 02:14 PM
    Hi Steve ... just to correct a couple of assumptions that seem included in your note:

    My licenses are current (but I'm not on a subscription); and I've contacted all the vendors in my region and not found a one with any different pricing for the 'required' upgrade that would need to occur before my licenses 'expire'.  The annual subscription I'm quoted is 975 to 1170 per seat - a slight variation depending on reseller.  The cost of the upgrade itself seems the same no matter where you go - even CDW on line quotes full retail.  

    In my small firm, I don't feel we have effectively used all the 'features' of our three year old version.  Frankly, we find it works well for our purposes and thus I see no real business reason to upgrade - other than to protect our licenses; or communicate with our consultants - both of which are reasons driven by factors other than the production of the instruments of service that ideally should be the heart of the matter.  I found it interesting that Revit (the company including all rights to the software) was bought by Autodesk a few years ago - for an amount the industry if well organized could have easily have covered.   

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    Michael Malinowski AIA
    AIA Director - California Region
    Applied Architecture, Inc.
    Sacramento CA
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  • 7.  RE:Partner or Parasite: how do you feel about your software?

    Posted 02-15-2012 05:17 PM

    Purchasing Revit is one thing, running a software company and competing against the likes of AutoDesk and Bentley is quite another.  These are big boys with deep pockets, huge infrastructures, salesforces and product development wings.  There is very good reason Revit sold to AutoDesk for the small amount you referred to, they could not compete with them, so it was their best option to sell out.

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    Alan Burcope AIA, MBA, LEED AP
    VP Project Development
    HBE Corporation
    Saint Louis MO
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