Small Project Design

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Small Project Practitioners and Technology in Architectural Practice .
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I am tired of Autodesk expense and incompatibility with its own products. Considering Vectorworks or ArchiCAD, any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Anthony Taylor AIA
Principal Architect
CTA Architects Inc.
San Marcos CA
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I started using Vectorworks in the late '90s with a larger firm doing production drafting for mostly public school work, and that firm is still using it.... I bought my own copy when I opened my sole proprietorship and it's been excellent for the small projects I now do.  I can easily share files with Autocad-using engineers.  The Vectorworks Designer package costs $3370 for a new single-seat license, and that includes a full suite of modules:  architectural, 3D rendering, site design including 3D terrain models, mechanical and electrical drafting tools and symbols, even a powerful module for theatrical stage lighting.  You can buy individual modules for less of course.  They say it's fully BIM functional but I have not used that.  Then I pay $789 a year for annual upgrades (which I agree is still a pain...).  Previously I bought the package and kept the same version for several years without upgrading, but they have incentives now to get everyone to upgrade every year.  Generally I really like the software.
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Bruce Ward AIA
Proprietor
Hamilton NY
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We have used ArchiCAD for 12 years.  Good tool sets-great support-BIM Server is very powerful and cost nothing extra.  Take a look at this article: http://bim.graphisoftus.com/whitepaper/Get_There_Faster_With_ArchiCAD.pdf

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Kevin Connolly AIA
President
Connolly Architects, Inc
Wauwatosa WI
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I concur with Kevin. I have been using Archicad for 10 years and have found no problem dealing with an Autocad world.

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Robert Moore AIA
Robert E. Moore Architect
Monroe NC
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-17-2012 08:19
From: Kevin Connolly
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD

We have used ArchiCAD for 12 years.  Good tool sets-great support-BIM Server is very powerful and cost nothing extra.  Take a look at this article: http://bim.graphisoftus.com/whitepaper/Get_There_Faster_With_ArchiCAD.pdf

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Kevin Connolly AIA
President
Connolly Architects, Inc
Wauwatosa WI
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DataCad is another worthy option.  It doesn't have BIM capabilities, but it does have 3D functions, although I tend to use Sketchup for 3D modeling.
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Christopher Carley AIA
C. N. Carley Associates
Concord NH
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-20-2012 09:17
From: Robert Moore
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD

I concur with Kevin. I have been using Archicad for 10 years and have found no problem dealing with an Autocad world.

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Robert Moore AIA
Robert E. Moore Architect
Monroe NC
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I have also used DataCad for many years. It is very inexpensive, yet comprehensive. Try it, you'll like it!
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David Ward AIA
David F. Ward AIA, Architect
Wilmington NC
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-21-2012 08:16
From: Christopher Carley
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD


DataCad is another worthy option.  It doesn't have BIM capabilities, but it does have 3D functions, although I tend to use Sketchup for 3D modeling.
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Christopher Carley AIA
C. N. Carley Associates
Concord NH
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-20-2012 09:17
From: Robert Moore
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD

I concur with Kevin. I have been using Archicad for 10 years and have found no problem dealing with an Autocad world.

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Robert Moore AIA
Robert E. Moore Architect
Monroe NC
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I have been using DataCAD for many years.  It is much easier to use than AutoCAD and much less expensive.  It was created by architects and thinks as we do.  I can seamlessly send my drawings to our consultants who do use AutoCAD and receive theirs and work with them in my DataCAD.  Contact Sales 800.394.2232 or sales@datacad.com or http://www.datacad.com/store.  An architect in the Boston area writes an excellant monthly newsletter which is full of good tips and information.
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P. Frantz AIA
P. Richard Frantz, AIA, Architect
Pottstown PA
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I am not familiar with Vectorworks, but a year ago I made the switch to ArchiCAD. After many mostly happy years with Chief Architect, I needed a program that provided good 3D modeling, but had better 2D capabilities and was more flexible and customizable. I chose ArchiCAD after seeing it in use at an architect friend's firm, because of the great support from the local reseller, and because ArchiCAD was BIM before the term was coined. The learning curve has been steep as it is a very comprehensive program and I am a sole (as well as old) practitioner, but I discovered an invaluable ArchiCAD online training program from Eric Bobrow (acbestpractices.com).  His Quick Start and Best Practices courses have made all the difference in getting through the transition. ArchiCAD is usually upgraded once a year, but it is not required. It is backwards compatible to the previous version, and Graphisoft seems to provide support for multiple prior versions. I don't use the teamwork features, but they are lauded in reviews. As I mostly do residential homes, additions, and renovations, the BIM features are not critical, but I see future opportunities to exploit the robust information stored in the model. So far, I am pleased with the program.
Good luck.

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Thomas Downer AIA
Owner
Downer/Associates
Cambridge MA
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I design new homes, remodels, and additions and I switched from Autocad to Archicad a few years ago.  The learning curve was very painful because I was going from basically drafting to BIM.  It took me about 6 months to really become productive, so I felt like I took a big hit, but in retrospect it was worth it and I love using the program now.  I feel that I am at the point where, even if I am not using the 3-d modeling capabilities of the program, all of the other features still make my workflow faster than it was.  I don't, however, feel that I have been able to exploit the BIM aspects of the model, except to have a few 3d drawings in my construction documents.  I would definitely have a plan for learning and exploiting the program.

About 6 months ago I set up a server using their BIMserver software, and I can work on projects with draftspeople and interns from their own locations relatively smoothly.  It's pretty cool.  
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David Brach AIA
Principal
Brach Design
Salt Lake City UT
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Adding my own experiences, I've been using ArchiCAD for 16 years, currently building 3d models on over 90% of all projects - everything from houses and porch additions to a 120 unit senior housing project and a small college football stadium. It's almost always best to build the model. Once you have learned ArchiCAD, its very easy to build the computer model as you go. 

One early memorable experience using building modeling was the football stadium in 1999. The building was 360' long and the the area under the stands was fully utilized for home and visitor locker rooms, large public toilets and student weight rooms. The project was being fast-tracked in the sense that the general contractor was picked and brought on-board in the design development stage. For an early meeting with the contractor I printed a half dozen color 3d views of the stands and underneath. I showed the prints to the GC who became very excited asking me to give him all the 3d prints I could. He posted the prints in the construction trailer to coordinate spaces under the stands for pipes and ductwork with his subcontractors. I completed the architectural design development and construction drawings for this small stadium, by myself in ArchiCAD, in about 12 weeks.

Currently, I'm using ArchiCAD on multiple town home projects from schematic design through CDs and including marketing packages for the developer. All of this is one computer file / building model. ArchiCAD allows easy set-up and production of CDs, while also producing photo renderings. 

I use ArchiCAD for office marketing brochure pages because it handles importing large image files with ease. It's easy to compose pages, add and manipulate image files, and has extensive text tools.

The dwg translator in ArchiCAD is excellent. It is easy to set-up and can be customized to the project and to coordinate with the software used by the intended recipient. Most of my ArchiCAD work has been on the Mac but I had a one year experience working in Windows NT, the interface was much the same and the files could be interchanged Mac to PC on a daily basis without any problem. To date, have not had the opportunity to export IFCs.

From my earliest experience, I am very excited with the potential of BIM and ArchiCAD and the capabilities they afford me as a sole practitioner.

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Virgil Bartram AIA
Architecture & Urban Views, Inc
Baltimore MD
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-23-2012 08:36
From: David Brach
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD


I design new homes, remodels, and additions and I switched from Autocad to Archicad a few years ago.  The learning curve was very painful because I was going from basically drafting to BIM.  It took me about 6 months to really become productive, so I felt like I took a big hit, but in retrospect it was worth it and I love using the program now.  I feel that I am at the point where, even if I am not using the 3-d modeling capabilities of the program, all of the other features still make my workflow faster than it was.  I don't, however, feel that I have been able to exploit the BIM aspects of the model, except to have a few 3d drawings in my construction documents.  I would definitely have a plan for learning and exploiting the program.

About 6 months ago I set up a server using their BIMserver software, and I can work on projects with draftspeople and interns from their own locations relatively smoothly.  It's pretty cool.  
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David Brach AIA
Principal
Brach Design
Salt Lake City UT
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I work with ArchiCAD as well, and concur with David Brach's remarks. The learning curve is painful, but once your through it, you won't look at the practice of architecture the same way. Finding new ways to use the BIM features can be exciting, especially during the construction phase of a project.

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Craig Bagley AIA
Principal
Craig Bagley Architect
Santa Cruz CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-23-2012 08:36
From: David Brach
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD


I design new homes, remodels, and additions and I switched from Autocad to Archicad a few years ago.  The learning curve was very painful because I was going from basically drafting to BIM.  It took me about 6 months to really become productive, so I felt like I took a big hit, but in retrospect it was worth it and I love using the program now.  I feel that I am at the point where, even if I am not using the 3-d modeling capabilities of the program, all of the other features still make my workflow faster than it was.  I don't, however, feel that I have been able to exploit the BIM aspects of the model, except to have a few 3d drawings in my construction documents.  I would definitely have a plan for learning and exploiting the program.

About 6 months ago I set up a server using their BIMserver software, and I can work on projects with draftspeople and interns from their own locations relatively smoothly.  It's pretty cool.  
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David Brach AIA
Principal
Brach Design
Salt Lake City UT
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I have used Revit off and on for a couple of years, but I keep falling into the "use it or lose it" void in how I spend my time. But as it has been mentioned, Autodesk is expensive and when I do use Revit, I am always on the phone or e-mail trying to solve problems with the software.

Does anyone know ArchiCAD compares with Revit. Maybe I have what I need and just need to use it more!

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George Jennings AIA
G Booker 3
Tappahannock VA
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-24-2012 21:04
From: Craig Bagley
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD

I work with ArchiCAD as well, and concur with David Brach's remarks. The learning curve is painful, but once your through it, you won't look at the practice of architecture the same way. Finding new ways to use the BIM features can be exciting, especially during the construction phase of a project.

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Craig Bagley AIA
Principal
Craig Bagley Architect
Santa Cruz CA
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I have used Archicad since 4.5 and find it to be at the top of the heap. I look at a few different BIM products , including rivet, vectorwors etc. every year to make sure I have the most complete and affordable software. ell I am still using Archicad 15 so I guess that says it all. The only thing I will more manufacturers would provide models part in a native Archicad format rather than just Revit. Seem like they may be missing the boat as more Archicad users come on line.

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Larry Warner
Sun City AZ
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-27-2012 08:52
From: George Jennings
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD

I have used Revit off and on for a couple of years, but I keep falling into the "use it or lose it" void in how I spend my time. But as it has been mentioned, Autodesk is expensive and when I do use Revit, I am always on the phone or e-mail trying to solve problems with the software.

Does anyone know ArchiCAD compares with Revit. Maybe I have what I need and just need to use it more!

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George Jennings AIA
G Booker 3
Tappahannock VA
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-24-2012 21:04
From: Craig Bagley
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD

I work with ArchiCAD as well, and concur with David Brach's remarks. The learning curve is painful, but once your through it, you won't look at the practice of architecture the same way. Finding new ways to use the BIM features can be exciting, especially during the construction phase of a project.

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Craig Bagley AIA
Principal
Craig Bagley Architect
Santa Cruz CA
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I began using MiniCad+ 5 in 1995 when I opened my own firm. It has since ported from Macs to PC's and is now called VectorWorks. I have the "Architect" industry-specific version and their rendering package called RenderWorks. I'm self-taught and member of my local user group. VectorWorks has always been a 2D-3D integrated modeling/CAD software with the "smart" objects and data-extraction at the core of the best BIM packages. For the price and usability, it's hard to beat. There are few features in Revit that are worth paying more than twice the price of VectorWorks. VW has a money-back guarantee too for folks that want to try it out. My two cents...

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Don Leighton-Burwell AIA
Owner
DLB Architect
Austin TX
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-28-2012 07:47
From: Larry Warner
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD

I have used Archicad since 4.5 and find it to be at the top of the heap. I look at a few different BIM products , including rivet, vectorwors etc. every year to make sure I have the most complete and affordable software. ell I am still using Archicad 15 so I guess that says it all. The only thing I will more manufacturers would provide models part in a native Archicad format rather than just Revit. Seem like they may be missing the boat as more Archicad users come on line.

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Larry Warner
Sun City AZ
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-27-2012 08:52
From: George Jennings
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD

I have used Revit off and on for a couple of years, but I keep falling into the "use it or lose it" void in how I spend my time. But as it has been mentioned, Autodesk is expensive and when I do use Revit, I am always on the phone or e-mail trying to solve problems with the software.

Does anyone know ArchiCAD compares with Revit. Maybe I have what I need and just need to use it more!

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George Jennings AIA
G Booker 3
Tappahannock VA
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George,

ArchiCAD to Revit is a tough comparison.  Depending on who you talk to you get different info and most of us tend to like what we are used to.  I have been on ArchiCAD for 8 years and I have loved every minute of using both the product and being away from Autodesk.  The lack of customer care from Autodesk was a big push out the door for me.  I have found the ArchiCAD companies and add-on products to be genuinely responsive and helpful in trying to solve my problems.  ArchiCAD is also cross-platform which allowed me to switch to the speed and power of a Mac without losing my files, templates, past projects, etc.  They were an initial member in the interoperability movement that created IFC files.  Because of that, ArchiCAD works with ("talks to") about 14-16 different programs, all major structural programs (including Revit Structure), all major mechanical programs, and created their own EcoDesigner that allows you to control the green aspects while you are in design. Though most of us single station users did not appreciate it, Graphisoft spent an entire version (AC14) perfecting their BIM server (TeamWork) for maximum efficiency, speed, and data safety.  I am sure I sound like a shill for the product, but over the years it has allowed me to compete with much larger companies because of the quality of the output and speed with which it coordinates.  I just finished a 20,000 SF 7-plex movie theatre for a project 5-states away in about 3-months, fully coordinated and no change orders.  However, BE WARNED!  The down time switching from any 2D product to BIM is significant, and my downtime was about 6 months.  I have not tried VectorWorks.  It would be the only other one I would even try, just for the beauty of renderings it produces native to the program.


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Mark Vacha AIA
Principal
mvacha design
San Diego CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-28-2012 07:47
From: Larry Warner
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD

I have used Archicad since 4.5 and find it to be at the top of the heap. I look at a few different BIM products , including rivet, vectorwors etc. every year to make sure I have the most complete and affordable software. ell I am still using Archicad 15 so I guess that says it all. The only thing I will more manufacturers would provide models part in a native Archicad format rather than just Revit. Seem like they may be missing the boat as more Archicad users come on line.

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Larry Warner
Sun City AZ
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-27-2012 08:52
From: George Jennings
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD

I have used Revit off and on for a couple of years, but I keep falling into the "use it or lose it" void in how I spend my time. But as it has been mentioned, Autodesk is expensive and when I do use Revit, I am always on the phone or e-mail trying to solve problems with the software.

Does anyone know ArchiCAD compares with Revit. Maybe I have what I need and just need to use it more!

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George Jennings AIA
G Booker 3
Tappahannock VA
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Mark Keller AIA
Keller & Barre Associates
Lake Forest CA
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Take a look at Sigma "Arris" software (www.arriscad.com)- been using it since 1988.  Very powerful, very architectural.  Will work in large and small offices- easily networked.  Affordable (+/- $1000) and updates are optional  (+/- $500). Broad, loyal user base. Good translation options.  Custom use or straight out of the "box".
Built in 3d (from the beginning) and has BIM type options which you can use or not.  Works on  windows os.




Original Message:
Sent: 02-29-2012 10:06
From: Mark Vacha
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD


George,

ArchiCAD to Revit is a tough comparison.  Depending on who you talk to you get different info and most of us tend to like what we are used to.  I have been on ArchiCAD for 8 years and I have loved every minute of using both the product and being away from Autodesk.  The lack of customer care from Autodesk was a big push out the door for me.  I have found the ArchiCAD companies and add-on products to be genuinely responsive and helpful in trying to solve my problems.  ArchiCAD is also cross-platform which allowed me to switch to the speed and power of a Mac without losing my files, templates, past projects, etc.  They were an initial member in the interoperability movement that created IFC files.  Because of that, ArchiCAD works with ("talks to") about 14-16 different programs, all major structural programs (including Revit Structure), all major mechanical programs, and created their own EcoDesigner that allows you to control the green aspects while you are in design. Though most of us single station users did not appreciate it, Graphisoft spent an entire version (AC14) perfecting their BIM server (TeamWork) for maximum efficiency, speed, and data safety.  I am sure I sound like a shill for the product, but over the years it has allowed me to compete with much larger companies because of the quality of the output and speed with which it coordinates.  I just finished a 20,000 SF 7-plex movie theatre for a project 5-states away in about 3-months, fully coordinated and no change orders.  However, BE WARNED!  The down time switching from any 2D product to BIM is significant, and my downtime was about 6 months.  I have not tried VectorWorks.  It would be the only other one I would even try, just for the beauty of renderings it produces native to the program.


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Mark Vacha AIA
Principal
mvacha design
San Diego CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-28-2012 07:47
From: Larry Warner
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD

I have used Archicad since 4.5 and find it to be at the top of the heap. I look at a few different BIM products , including rivet, vectorwors etc. every year to make sure I have the most complete and affordable software. ell I am still using Archicad 15 so I guess that says it all. The only thing I will more manufacturers would provide models part in a native Archicad format rather than just Revit. Seem like they may be missing the boat as more Archicad users come on line.

-------------------------------------------
Larry Warner
Sun City AZ
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 02-27-2012 08:52
From: George Jennings
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD

I have used Revit off and on for a couple of years, but I keep falling into the "use it or lose it" void in how I spend my time. But as it has been mentioned, Autodesk is expensive and when I do use Revit, I am always on the phone or e-mail trying to solve problems with the software.

Does anyone know ArchiCAD compares with Revit. Maybe I have what I need and just need to use it more!

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George Jennings AIA
G Booker 3
Tappahannock VA
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Has anyone else tried 'DraftSight' by Dessault Systems? They are the makers of Solidworks, and they offer Draftsight as a free version of a 2-D CAD drafting tool.
I installed it on my machine and tried a few rudimentary things with it; it imported a previous project done in AutoCAD LT 2007 just fine; but then the user interface got flaky on me.  As I drew new linework, everything would disappear from view and I would have to regen every time in order to see what I had drawn.
Just wondering if anyone else has had any better luck with this particular tool.
I believe there is a 'pay for it' version of DraftSIght also, which I have not tried. For now I am sticking with AutoCAD LT for 2-D work, and Revit for BIM.
PB


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Paul Brown AIA
Paul Spencer Brown, Architects
Needham MA
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Another possibility is DoublecadXT--an AutocadLT workalike.  Will view 3d but cannot generate 3d.
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Timothy Brocato AIA
Alexandria LA
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-27-2012 06:46
From: Paul Brown
Subject: Vectorworks or ArchiCAD

Has anyone else tried 'DraftSight' by Dessault Systems? They are the makers of Solidworks, and they offer Draftsight as a free version of a 2-D CAD drafting tool.
I installed it on my machine and tried a few rudimentary things with it; it imported a previous project done in AutoCAD LT 2007 just fine; but then the user interface got flaky on me.  As I drew new linework, everything would disappear from view and I would have to regen every time in order to see what I had drawn.
Just wondering if anyone else has had any better luck with this particular tool.
I believe there is a 'pay for it' version of DraftSIght also, which I have not tried. For now I am sticking with AutoCAD LT for 2-D work, and Revit for BIM.
PB


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Paul Brown AIA
Paul Spencer Brown, Architects
Needham MA
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I am a sole practitioner that has used AutoCAD LT on a MacBook Pro (via Parallels) for several years. I do primarily residential renovation, some additions, and some commercial. Since Microsoft will stop supporting Windows XP as soon as this year, and since I wanted better integration of 3D capabilities, and since I wanted something with database and BIM capabilities, and since I wanted to have a Mac-based program at reasonable cost, I decided to switch to Vectorworks Architect. I am very happy with the software. It has BIM, built-in space planning tools, good integration with AutoCAD, etc.

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Daniel Alter AIA
Daniel Alter Architect PLLC
Brooklyn NY
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