Small Project Design

Hi Group:
My first time posting. Just launching my own independent practice for the first time at the ripe young age of 55.
I'm searching for an affordable 24" wide roll printer and scanner. Can some of you tell me what make and model you use in your office? I would prefer color, but can go with B&W if it keeps the cost down. Perhaps a desktop model?
Thanks,
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Paul S. Brown, AIA
Architect
Needham, MA
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Paul,

I am in the same boat and have found that using a Reprographics company, NPC, which is in Needham has been a good substitute for having the capability of printing in-house (so to speak). Feel free to contact me through the forum if you have other questions.


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John Downie AIA
John V. Downie, Architect
Newton MA
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Hi Paul and All,

When my partnership broke up, I took the wide format printer.  I also bought a desktop printer that prints tabloid size.  I never really used the wide format.  We print everything on 11x17 (which both our GC's and clients love).  When we need larger format we send them out and have our repro house print 22x34 size.  With a few exceptions that has worked out well.

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Victor Nahmias AIA
President
Envision Architecture
Los Angeles CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 01-31-2012 15:52
From: John Downie
Subject: Affordable Wide Format Printer/Scanner


Paul,

I am in the same boat and have found that using a Reprographics company, NPC, which is in Needham has been a good substitute for having the capability of printing in-house (so to speak). Feel free to contact me through the forum if you have other questions.


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John Downie AIA
John V. Downie, Architect
Newton MA
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I use an HP Designjet 110 plus nr. It does a great job with 24" wide prints, and handles other sizes very easily (18x24, 11x17). It does color or b&w. We've had it for about 5 years and it's a workhorse. It works well with Macs and PCs on the same network.

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Edrick vanBeuzekom AIA
EvB Design
Somerville MA
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I've actually had really good luck finding quality printers on craigslist. I started my own business up in 2009, and at the time a large number of my prints were and still are 11x17. Contacting an HP seller and getting prices, the cheapest HP laser printer with network support was ~$470. That wasn't money I was willing to spend at the time.

Went on craiglist. I was patient. Found a one year old network 11x17 HP laser printer with expansion tray, sorter, storage base, etc, etc for $50. The sellers were a business that was closing. The printer is in excellent shape, and was well maintained with regular service. They even threw in a brand new toner cartridge. It was sweet deal. Point being is there are opportunities like this one if you're patient.

Research online for a 24" wide format printer. Find a few manufacturers and model #'s you are looking for, and start searching them on CL. I use an Android app on my phone and there are several for both android and iphone that will do automatic searching on CL for you, and give you notifications when you get a hit.  I'm not sure linking in this forum is allowed, but for instance 24" HP Printer. Brand new printer in the box for a couple hundred off retail.

Personally I do use a reprographics company for large format, but that's what suits my need. Good luck to you. 

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Gordon McKenzie Assoc. AIA
Tartan CAD Services
Lewisville TX
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I've gone away from using my HP plotter and use the print center at "Staples", they have a KIP. I either email PDF's or bring them on a thumb drive. Much easier to track the expense and pass along to the client, no headaches with paper jamming or running out of ink. Good luck with your new practice !

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Daniel Colella AIA
Grand Haven MI
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Unfortunately, one option in this economy is to look for other firms downsizing their equipment.  I picked up an HP T1100 printer this year from a mentor who had decided to retire.

Although there are a lot of options out there, I chose to stick with HP mainly due to the support for it.  Also, the ability to do color can be a selling point to clients.  I do renderings and 3D design work, so color capability for me is a necessity.

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Thomas Bank AIA
Owner/Architect
Simply Stated Architecture, P.C.
Lemoyne PA
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Thanks all; very helpful everyone. Much appreciated.
PB

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Paul Brown AIA
Architect
Needham MA
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Hello Paul, welcome to the group and best of luck in your new private practice.  For my small home based office, I use the HP Designjet 500 with a 24" carriage.  I do not have the floor stand but it fits nicely on a 2'x4' desk, 2-drawer lateral file or sturdy book case.  It is not only a great color printer/plotter but I was able to pick it up on Craigs List for $800.00.  I purchased it from a real estate person working out of his house and had used it so little that the original ink cartrages were still in the unit.  This was 1/2 to 1/3 the retail price so it was quite the steal.  My suggestion is to seek out the used units as there are quite a few good machines on the market. 

The Designjet 500 uses large ink cartrages which do not need replacing very often and it is far less expensive to operate than the low volume HP desktop printers.  Another suggestion I have is to purchace a small  printer (HP or Epson) that handles up to 13x19 sheet size.  These are available at Staples or Office Depot for around $150.00.  The beauty of these machines is that if 24x36 is a typical sheet size for your projects, you can run quick 1/2 size (12x18) sheets for review, checking or just keeping copies in your project file.  I also keep 11x17 paper available when scale is not a concern.

All of the machines I have listed above do crisp b/w as well as great color printing.  Good luck in your search and best of luck in your practice!
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John Lehman AIA
Lehman Associates, PC
Highland MD
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Hi Paul; good luck on your new endeavor. A single practice is a tough, but rewarding experience. With more and more associations with other architects and clients across the country, I've started utilizing large format scanning more and more. I've typically used a local print company for all scanning and plotting over 11x17 as all true color, large format scanners typically started at about $25K and could be LOTS more depending on speed and resolution. For those reasons, printing companies were alot more cost effective. I'm moving to a location where print companies aren't convenient, so I too had to find an alternative. I found the HP T2300PS eMFP, a new large format scanner/plotter that combines both for a package typically under $9,000. I actually found a demo unit for about $7K. While the ink and maintenance is expensive, it will be alot of years before I pass the $25K threshold we faced last year.  Good luck with your change and search.
 
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Thomas Mullinax AIA
President
Hospice Design Resource, PLLC
Hilton Head Island SC
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Paul,

Congratulations on making the leap! I don't know anything about the plotter you are looking for, but I just wanted to commend you for taking action and just doing it.

When I started my first one-man practice in 2000, I bought an HP DesignJet, table-top, black and white plotter, 24" sheet feed (not a scanner though). It was perfect for in-house plotting and only set me back about $1200. Unfortunately, HP doesn't make that plotter anymore, but I'm sure you'll find something comparable.

David Clarke AIA
Senior Architect
Williams Design Group, Inc.
Las Cruces NM
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I've been using an HP 120 for the last 8 years- 24" sheet or roll feed with a tray for smaller sizes. It has been perfect for my solo practice. It's no longer available, but the HP 110 and 130 are similar.

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Jean Terwilliger AIA
Architect
Jean Terwilliger, AIA, Architect
Cornwall VT
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We've used an HP DesignJet 110plus NR since 2006--and we use it a lot. It does color, does not scan and has not given us more than ten minutes of trouble in all that time. We still send out large drawings to be scanned.

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Robert Silarski AIA
Principal
S&Co.'Architecture+Design
Nyack NY
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I am a 2 person design build firm.   For 99% of our drawings, we use a konica/minolta "bizhub" C280 with 12x18 paper.   That is exactly 50% of 24x36 and I plot all 24x36 drawings at 50%.  The prints are scalable, very fast to print full sets (with CAD, drawings change pretty much every day) and cheap.  You have to size some text etc a little large on the originals, knowing you'lll be looking at them at half size.   The sets are small & handy enough that contractors actually look at them.  My HP500 plotter has been sitting idle for years.   We have a few institutional clients that want full sized sets (at first) and we send them out to printers - then I wean them off into 12x18 sets.   No sense being in the printing biz. 
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Steven Brown
DesignBuild LLC
Broomall PA
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-01-2012 10:42
From: Robert Silarski
Subject: Affordable Wide Format Printer/Scanner

We've used an HP DesignJet 110plus NR since 2006--and we use it a lot. It does color, does not scan and has not given us more than ten minutes of trouble in all that time. We still send out large drawings to be scanned.

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Robert Silarski AIA
Principal
S&Co.'Architecture+Design
Nyack NY
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Paul,

I would recommend going to a different size.  For the majority of my projects in the last 10 years we have been using 22x34 sheet that are 11x17 when half size.  This lets just about any standard office copier/printer with tabloid size work and then you use the large format plotter for the full size.  I know a few one man shop that do this and don't own a plotter, they send pdf files to the local print shop for full size only when needed for submittals.  This is simular to what Steve has said but a more common office set-up verses a design setup.


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Michael Jordan AIA
Cyntergy AEC, LLC
Tulsa OK
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-02-2012 06:10
From: Steven Brown
Subject: Affordable Wide Format Printer/Scanner

I am a 2 person design build firm.   For 99% of our drawings, we use a konica/minolta "bizhub" C280 with 12x18 paper.   That is exactly 50% of 24x36 and I plot all 24x36 drawings at 50%.  The prints are scalable, very fast to print full sets (with CAD, drawings change pretty much every day) and cheap.  You have to size some text etc a little large on the originals, knowing you'lll be looking at them at half size.   The sets are small & handy enough that contractors actually look at them.  My HP500 plotter has been sitting idle for years.   We have a few institutional clients that want full sized sets (at first) and we send them out to printers - then I wean them off into 12x18 sets.   No sense being in the printing biz. 
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Steven Brown
DesignBuild LLC
Broomall PA
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Harry Wright AIA
Associate
Costanza Spector Clauser Architects, PC
Moorestown NJ
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Autocad's print dialog has an option for scaling line weights. When you print hal;f size select this option and lineweights as well as text will be scaled by same factor as your reduction. Text is more legible, less lineweight bleed for text, parallel lines etc.






Original Message:
Sent: 02-03-2012 10:35
From: Michael Jordan
Subject: Affordable Wide Format Printer/Scanner

Paul,

I would recommend going to a different size.  For the majority of my projects in the last 10 years we have been using 22x34 sheet that are 11x17 when half size.  This lets just about any standard office copier/printer with tabloid size work and then you use the large format plotter for the full size.  I know a few one man shop that do this and don't own a plotter, they send pdf files to the local print shop for full size only when needed for submittals.  This is simular to what Steve has said but a more common office set-up verses a design setup.


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Michael Jordan AIA
Cyntergy AEC, LLC
Tulsa OK
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 02-02-2012 06:10
From: Steven Brown
Subject: Affordable Wide Format Printer/Scanner

I am a 2 person design build firm.   For 99% of our drawings, we use a konica/minolta "bizhub" C280 with 12x18 paper.   That is exactly 50% of 24x36 and I plot all 24x36 drawings at 50%.  The prints are scalable, very fast to print full sets (with CAD, drawings change pretty much every day) and cheap.  You have to size some text etc a little large on the originals, knowing you'lll be looking at them at half size.   The sets are small & handy enough that contractors actually look at them.  My HP500 plotter has been sitting idle for years.   We have a few institutional clients that want full sized sets (at first) and we send them out to printers - then I wean them off into 12x18 sets.   No sense being in the printing biz. 
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Steven Brown
DesignBuild LLC
Broomall PA
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We have abandoned the large format printer as well.  I learned that most of the large format printers are good for about three years.  After that, it becomes hard to get parts for them.

We went to a 22x34 sheet and print 11x17 in the office on EPSON 1100 workforce printers.  You can purchase these for around $100.00 at the big box office supply place.  Not much invested and when they break, it is affordable to upgrade to the newest model.

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John Chase AIA
Principal
Chase Marshall, APAC
Lafayette LA
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-02-2012 06:10
From: Steven Brown
Subject: Affordable Wide Format Printer/Scanner

I am a 2 person design build firm.   For 99% of our drawings, we use a konica/minolta "bizhub" C280 with 12x18 paper.   That is exactly 50% of 24x36 and I plot all 24x36 drawings at 50%.  The prints are scalable, very fast to print full sets (with CAD, drawings change pretty much every day) and cheap.  You have to size some text etc a little large on the originals, knowing you'lll be looking at them at half size.   The sets are small & handy enough that contractors actually look at them.  My HP500 plotter has been sitting idle for years.   We have a few institutional clients that want full sized sets (at first) and we send them out to printers - then I wean them off into 12x18 sets.   No sense being in the printing biz. 
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Steven Brown
DesignBuild LLC
Broomall PA
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Susan Rochelle AIA
Susan M. Rochelle Architect
Milford NJ
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Hi Paul--
I recently bought what I thought might be a "downgrade", compared to the one I had previously--because of its low price.  It has been printing out drawings without a bit of trouble and much more quickly than that needed replacement. It loads easily too.  It does not scan, but prints in black and white and in color.  HP Designjet 111.

Good luck with your new venture!

Paul
I have been on my own for 7 1/2 years and have never bought a large format printer.  I own a printer that prints half size sets and buy 13 x 19 paper for it.  It serves most of my reviewing needs.  I use a commercial printer for everything else.  I don't have to store ink or paper and they don't break down when I have a deadline.  I have a commercial practice and I am reimbursed for the expense.  It is easier to track as a bill than as part of ink and paper costs.  I recommend you develop a relationship with a good printing company.  I send PDF files to my printer at any time of day or night and they deliver to me when I need the prints.  I no longer print for contractors.  They download the drawings and specifications and print for themselves. 

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Gail Pelsue AIA
Principal
Pelsue Architecture, LLC
Denver CO
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A few years back we got rid of our old HP 400 plotter and bought a brand new HP 110 Plus NR.  The HP 110 is good printer--affordable, good quality and fast.  Unfortunately the HP 110s have a very loud fan and motor that keeps running even when it is not printing.

We were surprised by the noise and contacted HP to see if something was wrong with our printer.  They told us that level of noise was normal for that printer and showed us that 37db is normal the idling sound level listed in the specs for the printer.

To keep the noise down we turn off the printer between prints which is a hassle for a networked printer.
Our old HP 400 was silent between print jobs. 

I wouldn't buy another HP 110 because of the idling noise between print jobs.

HP does have a line of large format printer/scanners but they are expensive.  Our solution was to get a Graphtec CS500 Pro scanner for large format scanning.  The Graphtec scanner is expensive but it is also a good, easy to use large format scanner.

You might also want to take a look at HP's new driverless/network ready/internet ready large format printers. I like the idea of a driverless printer.  When we got our new HP110 Plus NR it took our IT guy a while to set it up and then more time later to straighten out the drivers and network configuration when we added new hardware on our network.

I hope this helps. 
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John Cassel Assoc. AIA
John Cassel Design Studio, LLC
Haiku, Hawaii
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-01-2012 13:57
From: Gail Pelsue
Subject: Affordable Wide Format Printer/Scanner

Paul
I have been on my own for 7 1/2 years and have never bought a large format printer.  I own a printer that prints half size sets and buy 13 x 19 paper for it.  It serves most of my reviewing needs.  I use a commercial printer for everything else.  I don't have to store ink or paper and they don't break down when I have a deadline.  I have a commercial practice and I am reimbursed for the expense.  It is easier to track as a bill than as part of ink and paper costs.  I recommend you develop a relationship with a good printing company.  I send PDF files to my printer at any time of day or night and they deliver to me when I need the prints.  I no longer print for contractors.  They download the drawings and specifications and print for themselves. 

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Gail Pelsue AIA
Principal
Pelsue Architecture, LLC
Denver CO
-------------------------------------------

A few years back we got rid of our old HP 400 plotter and bought a brand new HP 110 Plus NR.  The HP 110 is good printer--affordable, good quality and fast.  Unfortunately the HP 110s have a very loud fan and motor that keeps running even when it is not printing.

We were surprised by the noise and contacted HP to see if something was wrong with our printer.  They told us that level of noise was normal for that printer and showed us that 37db is normal the idling sound level listed in the specs for the printer.

To keep the noise down we turn off the printer between prints which is a hassle for a networked printer.
Our old HP 400 was silent between print jobs. 

I wouldn't buy another HP 110 because of the idling noise between print jobs.

HP does have a line of large format printer/scanners but they are expensive.  Our solution was to get a Graphtec CS500 Pro scanner for large format scanning.  The Graphtec scanner is expensive but it is also a good, easy to use large format scanner.

You might also want to take a look at HP's new driverless/network ready/internet ready large format printers. I like the idea of a driverless printer.  When we got our new HP110 Plus NR it took our IT guy a while to set it up and then more time later to straighten out the drivers and network configuration when we added new hardware on our network.

I hope this helps. 
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John Cassel Assoc. AIA
John Cassel Design Studio, LLC
Haiku, Hawaii
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 02-01-2012 13:57
From: Gail Pelsue
Subject: Affordable Wide Format Printer/Scanner

Paul
I have been on my own for 7 1/2 years and have never bought a large format printer.  I own a printer that prints half size sets and buy 13 x 19 paper for it.  It serves most of my reviewing needs.  I use a commercial printer for everything else.  I don't have to store ink or paper and they don't break down when I have a deadline.  I have a commercial practice and I am reimbursed for the expense.  It is easier to track as a bill than as part of ink and paper costs.  I recommend you develop a relationship with a good printing company.  I send PDF files to my printer at any time of day or night and they deliver to me when I need the prints.  I no longer print for contractors.  They download the drawings and specifications and print for themselves. 

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Gail Pelsue AIA
Principal
Pelsue Architecture, LLC
Denver CO
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Paul
I have been on my own for 7 1/2 years and have never bought a large format printer.  I own a printer that prints half size sets and buy 13 x 19 paper for it.  It serves most of my reviewing needs.  I use a commercial printer for all of the drawings I usse to the oowner and consultants.   I don't have to store ink or paper and they don't break down when I have a deadline.  I have a commercial practice and I am reimbursed for the expense.  It is easier to track as a bill than as part of ink and paper costs.  I recommend you develop a relationship with a good printing company.  I send PDF files to my printer at any time of day or night and they deliver to me when I need the prints.  I no longer print for contractors.  They download the drawings and specifications and print for themselves. 

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Gail Pelsue AIA
Principal
Pelsue Architecture, LLC
Denver CO
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