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  • 1.  condo document drawings

    Posted 09-28-2010 12:53 PM
    This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Small Project Practitioners and Practice Management Member Conversations .
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    I have a client which I've done numerous jobs for small condo projects (duplexes up to six-unit buildings).  I provide to my client condo document drawings for each unit.  This client now is asking me if I can provide condo document drawings for other buildings that I am not the architect of record for.  I am considering taking these projects but am unsure what I need to do to cover myself liability wise and if this would be against any licensure laws.  If I do take these projects I plan to create my own set of drawings based on the permit drawing sets given to me, along with a field survey.

    Any help or comments is appreciated.

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    Richard Sanford AIA
    Architect
    Sanford Architects
    Philadelphia PA
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  • 2.  RE:condo document drawings

    Posted 09-29-2010 10:41 AM
    A few comments:
    1. Philadelphia may not be as litigious as NYC where I reside and work but, in any case, residential condominiums are known to be the greatest source of litigation against insured professionals.
    2. Find out why the architect of record is not doing this work, if that is possible.
    3. If you decide to do this work, you must design a very good agreement that specifies that you have no responsibility for any kind of construction oversight whatsoever and that you are not responsible for any code work, etc.
    4. If you do this work, I recommend relying as much as possible on the architect of record's drawings, not spending the time to re-draw which will likely increase your liability, and I would shy away as much as possible or shy away entirely from any kind of field survey (unless no construction work has begun yet).
    5. The condo documents you provide must be very clear and comprehensive regarding existing conditions and must indicate any potential problems that could arise from construction.
    6. None of this will prevent you from being sued should a problem arise once the condo owners occupy the building.

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    Daniel Alter AIA
    Daniel Alter Architect PLLC
    Brooklyn NY
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  • 3.  RE:condo document drawings

    Posted 09-30-2010 07:54 AM
    Condo projects are difficult enough when they're your own projects. The old adage comes to mind regarding condos- "it's not a matter if you'll get sued but when you'll get sued." I personally would pass on the project. However, if you decide to pursue it I would suggest you discuss it with your insurance carrrier- they're very particular when it comes to condos- probably more so if you weren't the original architect. 

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    Keith Palma AIA
    Cogitate Design, PLLC
    Raleigh NC
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  • 4.  RE:condo document drawings

    Posted 09-30-2010 09:33 AM

    Forgive me but I am trying to figure out what "condo document drawings" are.

    At first I thought you were referring to construction documents, however you clearly state that you are being asked to provide these types of drawings for other buildings for which you are not the architect of record, meaning that there already is a set of construction documents provided by someone else. If you were to provide construction documents, it might be wise to call the architect of record first. I agree with Daniel Alter and Richard Sanford regarding their comments.

    It then occurs to me that you might be referring to plat documents defining each condo unit for the purposes of property rights, because you mentioned that you have provided these types of drawings "for each unit". If this is the case then I strongly agree with Daniel Alter regarding his comments.

    Finally it occurs to me that you could be referring to marketing plans, once again "for each unit". If this is the case then, with the proper disclaimer language on each drawing, you are simply documenting someone else's work. Piece of cake.

    If I've missed the mark on all three, then perhaps you would be so kind as to clarify this for me.

    Of course I am not a lawyer and can't offer you any legal advice on liability issues.



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    Craig Cernek AIA
    The Archi/Build Group
    Chicago IL
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  • 5.  RE:condo document drawings

    Posted 10-01-2010 08:47 AM

    Condo documents are the description of the condominium units and the common areas and any restrictions on there use- verbiage and actual drawings. The main issues that result in condo lawsuits are "noise" (poor acoustical detailing) and water infiltration. The condo documents are not construction documents, but the are often used by the homeowners association to find perceived fault with the design of the building. As such, assuming responsibility for a project in which you are not the architect for is a bad idea. It is also a discussion to have with your insurance carrier- who are often leary about condo projects to begin with, let alone one you were not the architect for.



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    Keith Palma AIA
    Architect
    Cogitate Design, PLLC
    Raleigh NC
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  • 6.  RE:condo document drawings

    Posted 09-30-2010 04:26 PM

    Daniel said it all. Once the condo developer is long gone, your name will still be on the documents and condo associations are notorious for coming after Architects. I just dont do condos. A business decision we all must make on our own.
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    Ronald Peters AIA
    President
    HistoricStreetscapes PLLC
    Mesa AZ
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  • 7.  RE:condo document drawings

    Posted 10-03-2010 06:57 AM
    Richard,

    Have you been asked to prepare drawings which help the client with the sale of the property vs. contract documents for permitting, bidding and conting a project?

    For instance, in Massachusetts one requirement for the sale for a condominium unit is a floor plan, prepared and certified by a registered architect, which verifies the size and layout of the unit being sold. This document, is filed with the registry of deeds at closing by the attorney.

    If this is the case with the assignment you've been asked to participate in it sounds like a normal (at least in Massachusetts) type of project for a small practitioner. 

    I suggest you speak with your insurer. They should be able to offer you liability limiting language to include in your agreements. 

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    Richard Schmidt AIA
    Principal, LEED AP
    RF Schmidt Architects
    Chestnut Hill MA
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  • 8.  RE:condo document drawings

    Posted 10-04-2010 12:21 PM


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    Gary Collins AIA
    Principal
    G.R. Collins Plus Associates
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    CHECK WITH YOUR ATTORNEY! 

    It seems you may be considering drawings that are the condo equivalent of recorded land plat drawings in order to determine the extent of legal ownership of each dwelling unit.  If that is the case, some liability may attach to them, although likely less than would to contract documents.  I believe that in California, at least, these "map" drawings are done by civil engineers, who generate a recordable legal description in the process.

    You will be well advised to determine the extent of your liability before proceding in order to set a fee that is proportional to that liability.






  • 9.  RE:condo document drawings

    Posted 09-29-2010 02:56 PM
    Richard- You need to check to see if the condo plans have have been copyrighted.The owner may not be aware that they have been copyrighted. If they are, then you will need to get signed permission from the copyright owner before you can use the plans even if you redraw them from scrach.
    A copyright lawsuite will be expensive. Even if you belive you are in the right.

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    James Howard AIA
    Architect
    Fort Worth TX
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