Small Project Design

Re: R. Sandquist's post, I'd like to point out that Griffin is not an economist, but an accountant, and his other major pursuit is searching for the resting place of Noah's Ark.  These are not the credentials I would look for in an expert on the Federal Reserve and central banking.  The guy is basically a conspiracy hobbyist, o.k. if you like that sort of thing.

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Gary Collins AIA
Principal
Gary R. Collins, AIA
Jacksonville OR
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R. Sandquist AIA
Vice President
Sandquist Construction Group Inc
Lincoln NE
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We all have our opinions, very few of them un-biased.  But for a considerably less biased description of the quite accomplished author, lecturer and filmaker G. Edward Griffin as opposed to the description provided Gary Collins, simply try Wikipedia.

Are you sure that it makes this "G. Edward Griffin" more credible to know that he worked on the 1968 George Wallace presidential campaign, that he is a long-time member and officer of the John Birch Society, that he thinks that a vitamin is a "magic bullet" cure for cancer or that he strongly supports one location over another as the final resting place of Noah's Ark?  I understand that in certain sub-cultures, say, certain Tea Party events, these attributes say "highly respected Keynote Speaker!"  But I hope that you understand that in other American sub-cultures, for instance, people with liberal arts degrees from highly-competitive admissions universities, these same attributes impart the impression of "scary, racist, fundamentalist nut-job who makes stuff up."  I guess one could chalk the difference up to "bias", but I suspect that "breadth and depth of accurate knowledge about the world creating a frame of reference for assessing extraordinary claims" might also play a role.  In the end there are facts, and there is a reality, and sometimes, certain people are just plain wrong about a whole bunch of things.  Often, these "largely wrong" people don't have a lot of solid evidence to back up their claims.

Discussions of finance and banking are difficult and complex enough when you focus on facts and reality.  When you add in hallucinations like UN conspiracies, space aliens or a secret market selling US birth certificates, you clearly are not going to make any real progress.  (Do any of these conspiracy-minded folks actually know people who work at the UN?  Have they ever bothered to go to Council on Foreign Relations events and talk to people involved in the organization?  Do they think that nothing goes on there but mustache-twirling and choruses of "mwahahahahah!"?)

Sorry, but turning off the space aliens' mind control rays radiating from the UN headquarters that influence the Fed into secretly selling US birth certificates to the Chinese isn't the quick fix for the boring, complex and difficult problems that underlie our financial policies.  We all have a lot of hard work ahead of us to rebuild our economy, and it looks like there will be quite a few distractions pulling us away from productive work in that direction.

Looking at the tone of our last two election cycles in the US, the fringe kooks, ideologues and voices paid for by certain industries are out in force.  They are looking to shout down, shut down and repeal any substantive work that the centrists try to get done.  I am not optimistic that we will be able to put into place the sensible, substantive, middle-of-the-road regulations that are needed to pull us back from our failed experiment in financial non-regulation before the next bust cycle.

(Yes, yes, I am well aware of my own foolishness here:
http://xkcd.com/386/

For anyone with 18 minutes who is interested in hearing how conspiracy kooks actually manage to kill large numbers of people, science writer Ben Goldacre has a pretty entertaining presentation:
http://vimeo.com/17889555

I bring it up, because I think that we need to apply more of the scientific rigor that Ben discusses to more issues, like economic policy.  Too many of the economic claims made by the insurgent fringe in the US are the equivalent of "eating chlorophyll rich foods will oxygenate your blood" and similar malarkey.  Sure, they are totally unsubstantiated by any actual evidence, but moreover, they can be dismissed with a little calm, sensible thinking.)


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Thomas H. Donalek AIA
Chicago IL
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Original Message:
Sent: 12-27-2010 13:38
From: R. Sandquist
Subject: What to do about banks



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R. Sandquist AIA
Vice President
Sandquist Construction Group Inc
Lincoln NE
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We all have our opinions, very few of them un-biased.  But for a considerably less biased description of the quite accomplished author, lecturer and filmaker G. Edward Griffin as opposed to the description provided Gary Collins, simply try Wikipedia.

Back in the days of Nelson's Navy, the officers mess had a few rules about what could be discussed during meals.  "Work" - the sailing of the ship - was off limits, as was religion and politics.  Voyages could last for years, and the point behind the rule was to reduce areas of friction as much as possible for men that pretty much lived on top of each other in small vessels.

This thread started with comments on the policies and practices of the Fed.  Important to us as architects since Fed policy helps determine the availability of lending by banks, which affects how much work we have.  Many commentators question the steps the Fed has taken to fight the current recession:  others think it has not done enough.

A reference was made in an earlier post to a book written by G. Edward Griffin, the topic of which is the founding of the Fed.  A follow up comment was made not on the content of the book per se, but on the character of the author.  There is, of course, no logical construct in this:  belief in the existence of Noah's Ark or not does not validate or deny whether the existence of the Fed is a good idea or not.

It's easy to make generalized statements about left or right on the political spectrum, and it's just as easy to offend.  There are forums where one can insult their political opposites to their hearts content - but it should not be here.  Here let's talk architecture, about the problems and challenges we face regardless of political or religious points of view.  If we don't this forum will die - I've seen it happen a couple of times in the past in other discussion forums.  People will stop coming, and the only participation will be by a small group of people that are only interested in making their point, everything else be damned.

If that happens we all lose.

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Klaus Steinke AIA
Las Vegas NV
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Original Message:
Sent: 12-28-2010 15:45
From: Thomas H. Donalek
Subject: What to do about banks

Are you sure that it makes this "G. Edward Griffin" more credible to know that he worked on the 1968 George Wallace presidential campaign, that he is a long-time member and officer of the John Birch Society, that he thinks that a vitamin is a "magic bullet" cure for cancer or that he strongly supports one location over another as the final resting place of Noah's Ark?  I understand that in certain sub-cultures, say, certain Tea Party events, these attributes say "highly respected Keynote Speaker!"  But I hope that you understand that in other American sub-cultures, for instance, people with liberal arts degrees from highly-competitive admissions universities, these same attributes impart the impression of "scary, racist, fundamentalist nut-job who makes stuff up."  I guess one could chalk the difference up to "bias", but I suspect that "breadth and depth of accurate knowledge about the world creating a frame of reference for assessing extraordinary claims" might also play a role.  In the end there are facts, and there is a reality, and sometimes, certain people are just plain wrong about a whole bunch of things.  Often, these "largely wrong" people don't have a lot of solid evidence to back up their claims.

Discussions of finance and banking are difficult and complex enough when you focus on facts and reality.  When you add in hallucinations like UN conspiracies, space aliens or a secret market selling US birth certificates, you clearly are not going to make any real progress.  (Do any of these conspiracy-minded folks actually know people who work at the UN?  Have they ever bothered to go to Council on Foreign Relations events and talk to people involved in the organization?  Do they think that nothing goes on there but mustache-twirling and choruses of "mwahahahahah!"?)

Sorry, but turning off the space aliens' mind control rays radiating from the UN headquarters that influence the Fed into secretly selling US birth certificates to the Chinese isn't the quick fix for the boring, complex and difficult problems that underlie our financial policies.  We all have a lot of hard work ahead of us to rebuild our economy, and it looks like there will be quite a few distractions pulling us away from productive work in that direction.

Looking at the tone of our last two election cycles in the US, the fringe kooks, ideologues and voices paid for by certain industries are out in force.  They are looking to shout down, shut down and repeal any substantive work that the centrists try to get done.  I am not optimistic that we will be able to put into place the sensible, substantive, middle-of-the-road regulations that are needed to pull us back from our failed experiment in financial non-regulation before the next bust cycle.

(Yes, yes, I am well aware of my own foolishness here:
http://xkcd.com/386/

For anyone with 18 minutes who is interested in hearing how conspiracy kooks actually manage to kill large numbers of people, science writer Ben Goldacre has a pretty entertaining presentation:
http://vimeo.com/17889555

I bring it up, because I think that we need to apply more of the scientific rigor that Ben discusses to more issues, like economic policy.  Too many of the economic claims made by the insurgent fringe in the US are the equivalent of "eating chlorophyll rich foods will oxygenate your blood" and similar malarkey.  Sure, they are totally unsubstantiated by any actual evidence, but moreover, they can be dismissed with a little calm, sensible thinking.)


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Thomas H. Donalek AIA
Chicago IL
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Well said, Mr. Steinke.  I've found the discussion on this forum very helpful thus far.  Please let's keep it to topics directly related to the profession.  I don't see any problem with someone suggesting further reading.  We are all capable of checking into the sources ourselves.  Thank you for some very interesting discussions!

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Catherine Barfield AIA
Architect
Atlanta GA
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Original Message:
Sent: 12-28-2010 23:33
From: Klaus Steinke
Subject: What to do about banks

Back in the days of Nelson's Navy, the officers mess had a few rules about what could be discussed during meals.  "Work" - the sailing of the ship - was off limits, as was religion and politics.  Voyages could last for years, and the point behind the rule was to reduce areas of friction as much as possible for men that pretty much lived on top of each other in small vessels.

This thread started with comments on the policies and practices of the Fed.  Important to us as architects since Fed policy helps determine the availability of lending by banks, which affects how much work we have.  Many commentators question the steps the Fed has taken to fight the current recession:  others think it has not done enough.

A reference was made in an earlier post to a book written by G. Edward Griffin, the topic of which is the founding of the Fed.  A follow up comment was made not on the content of the book per se, but on the character of the author.  There is, of course, no logical construct in this:  belief in the existence of Noah's Ark or not does not validate or deny whether the existence of the Fed is a good idea or not.

It's easy to make generalized statements about left or right on the political spectrum, and it's just as easy to offend.  There are forums where one can insult their political opposites to their hearts content - but it should not be here.  Here let's talk architecture, about the problems and challenges we face regardless of political or religious points of view.  If we don't this forum will die - I've seen it happen a couple of times in the past in other discussion forums.  People will stop coming, and the only participation will be by a small group of people that are only interested in making their point, everything else be damned.

If that happens we all lose.

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Klaus Steinke AIA
Las Vegas NV
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