Small Project Design

I am often asked by contractors, clients, and other architects working on my projects to provide them with my CAD drawings so they don't have to draw the backgrounds and can get on with their work. Usually I comply, if I know them and am working with them, but I usually make a bare-bones copy and erase all information that they don't need. 
Sometimes a tenant's architect will make this request, or the client will ask for the CAD drawings "for his records", or the client will insist that I give the CAD files to the tenant's architect or he will lose the tenant.
I'd like to know how other architects feel about giving their work away and how they handle these requests. I'm all for being a team member but if I'm competing to be the tenant's architect I'm not interested in saving him the time and money it took to create the work. 
Any comments?

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Peter Elkin AIA
Peter Elkin Architect
Brentwood NY
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One thing I'd recommend is at a minimum have anyone who requests your drawings sign a waiver saying they aknowledge that you are not responsible for any mistakes due to the inaccuracy of the drawings and that it is THEIR responsibility to verify existing conditions, etc.

Other wise I make the judgement of whether or not to provide the drawings and/or to charge a fee based on who is asking.  If refusal to provide the drawings or charging a fee will strain a valuable relationship I won't.  If the bridge is already burned or there is no relationship to speak of I've seen architects charge a $100 fee or so for the time they spend finding the drawings and sending them to the client/consultant.  I usually play nice and treat others the way I want to be treated because there are plenty of times where it has helped me to have other peoples drawings as a base to start from.

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Matthew Berge AIA
Royal Oak MI
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-07-2013 19:45
From: Peter Elkin
Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings

I am often asked by contractors, clients, and other architects working on my projects to provide them with my CAD drawings so they don't have to draw the backgrounds and can get on with their work. Usually I comply, if I know them and am working with them, but I usually make a bare-bones copy and erase all information that they don't need. 
Sometimes a tenant's architect will make this request, or the client will ask for the CAD drawings "for his records", or the client will insist that I give the CAD files to the tenant's architect or he will lose the tenant.
I'd like to know how other architects feel about giving their work away and how they handle these requests. I'm all for being a team member but if I'm competing to be the tenant's architect I'm not interested in saving him the time and money it took to create the work. 
Any comments?

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Peter Elkin AIA
Peter Elkin Architect
Brentwood NY
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I agree with others who say that Liability should be a primary concern.  

In our practice, we not only have clients asking for files (they usually accept PDF versions, by the way), but contractors looking for backgrounds for their sub-contractors.  It is very important that you limit your exposure.  First, you need to ask for a Hold Harmless from your Owner for the accuracy of the information.  Second, from contractors looking to base their shop drawings and submittals off of your files, you need to inform them they are still liable for everything they would be if they put the documents together without your files, especially dimensions.

The AIA Contract Documents has a nice Data Release form that we have used and seems to cover the bases.

Also, there is nothing wrong with ASKING your client or whoever else may want files what they intend to use them for.  It may give you an insight as to where your relationship is going.  Remember, trust but verify.

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Walter Hainsfurther FAIA
Kurtz Associates Architects
Des Plaines IL
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-08-2013 13:29
From: Matthew Berge
Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings

One thing I'd recommend is at a minimum have anyone who requests your drawings sign a waiver saying they aknowledge that you are not responsible for any mistakes due to the inaccuracy of the drawings and that it is THEIR responsibility to verify existing conditions, etc.

Other wise I make the judgement of whether or not to provide the drawings and/or to charge a fee based on who is asking.  If refusal to provide the drawings or charging a fee will strain a valuable relationship I won't.  If the bridge is already burned or there is no relationship to speak of I've seen architects charge a $100 fee or so for the time they spend finding the drawings and sending them to the client/consultant.  I usually play nice and treat others the way I want to be treated because there are plenty of times where it has helped me to have other peoples drawings as a base to start from.

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Matthew Berge AIA
Royal Oak MI
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-07-2013 19:45
From: Peter Elkin
Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings

I am often asked by contractors, clients, and other architects working on my projects to provide them with my CAD drawings so they don't have to draw the backgrounds and can get on with their work. Usually I comply, if I know them and am working with them, but I usually make a bare-bones copy and erase all information that they don't need. 
Sometimes a tenant's architect will make this request, or the client will ask for the CAD drawings "for his records", or the client will insist that I give the CAD files to the tenant's architect or he will lose the tenant.
I'd like to know how other architects feel about giving their work away and how they handle these requests. I'm all for being a team member but if I'm competing to be the tenant's architect I'm not interested in saving him the time and money it took to create the work. 
Any comments?

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Peter Elkin AIA
Peter Elkin Architect
Brentwood NY
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Thank you all who have responded to my posting. It is good to know that this is such a hot button in our profession. By the way, the client of the last architect that asked for my CAD drawings turned out to be negotiating to buy the office building I was working on. He would have ended up with a basis to do a large amount of work for years to come.
So, in the future, no cad drawings go out. It seems that "my insurance carrier won't permit it".
Thanks again.

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Peter Elkin AIA
Peter Elkin Architect
Brentwood NY
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-08-2013 13:29
From: Matthew Berge
Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings

One thing I'd recommend is at a minimum have anyone who requests your drawings sign a waiver saying they aknowledge that you are not responsible for any mistakes due to the inaccuracy of the drawings and that it is THEIR responsibility to verify existing conditions, etc.

Other wise I make the judgement of whether or not to provide the drawings and/or to charge a fee based on who is asking.  If refusal to provide the drawings or charging a fee will strain a valuable relationship I won't.  If the bridge is already burned or there is no relationship to speak of I've seen architects charge a $100 fee or so for the time they spend finding the drawings and sending them to the client/consultant.  I usually play nice and treat others the way I want to be treated because there are plenty of times where it has helped me to have other peoples drawings as a base to start from.

-------------------------------------------
Matthew Berge AIA
Royal Oak MI
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-07-2013 19:45
From: Peter Elkin
Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings

I am often asked by contractors, clients, and other architects working on my projects to provide them with my CAD drawings so they don't have to draw the backgrounds and can get on with their work. Usually I comply, if I know them and am working with them, but I usually make a bare-bones copy and erase all information that they don't need. 
Sometimes a tenant's architect will make this request, or the client will ask for the CAD drawings "for his records", or the client will insist that I give the CAD files to the tenant's architect or he will lose the tenant.
I'd like to know how other architects feel about giving their work away and how they handle these requests. I'm all for being a team member but if I'm competing to be the tenant's architect I'm not interested in saving him the time and money it took to create the work. 
Any comments?

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Peter Elkin AIA
Peter Elkin Architect
Brentwood NY
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In the case of tenant/ shell work, I'm happy to see someone else's drawing, but if I'm to design a tenant space within an existing shell, I'm still measuring the shell myself. If I create an error, I want it to be mine and not the other guy/gal. This is true of any renovation work. We all know that projects are not always built "just like the drawings". During the lean times, I had a Landlord client commission me to draw up his shell spaces so he could have the CAD files on hand for prospective tenants to use. I ended up getting a couple of tenant jobs because of this. Again, I'd never trust someone else's drawings to do the tenant project, but I'd bring them with me to mark up when I measure the space myself. Sometimes sharing brings you work...

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Eric Rawlings AIA
Owner
Rawlings Design, Inc.
Decatur GA
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-07-2013 19:45
From: Peter Elkin
Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings

I am often asked by contractors, clients, and other architects working on my projects to provide them with my CAD drawings so they don't have to draw the backgrounds and can get on with their work. Usually I comply, if I know them and am working with them, but I usually make a bare-bones copy and erase all information that they don't need. 
Sometimes a tenant's architect will make this request, or the client will ask for the CAD drawings "for his records", or the client will insist that I give the CAD files to the tenant's architect or he will lose the tenant.
I'd like to know how other architects feel about giving their work away and how they handle these requests. I'm all for being a team member but if I'm competing to be the tenant's architect I'm not interested in saving him the time and money it took to create the work. 
Any comments?

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Peter Elkin AIA
Peter Elkin Architect
Brentwood NY
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I have always helped out w/ other Architects coming behind with my drawings, but when owners want them I say w/out CAD they cannot read them and offer full sets of pdf's. The last office building that the owner wanted my CAD files was the last time I heard from them, as they found a cheaper Architect to work up their upfits.
I will generally send stripped down files to subs or a tenant's Architect as base plans for their work, but nothing more.
When I get files from other Architects, I use as a reference and starting point, since I will always still measure and ultimately be responsible for any errors with the plans. I would like to think my plans are always correct, but question another Architect that does not field verify (even my work) for errors.

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Craig Isaac AIA
Architect
Craig W. Isaac Architecture
Charlotte NC
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-07-2013 19:45
From: Peter Elkin
Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings

I am often asked by contractors, clients, and other architects working on my projects to provide them with my CAD drawings so they don't have to draw the backgrounds and can get on with their work. Usually I comply, if I know them and am working with them, but I usually make a bare-bones copy and erase all information that they don't need. 
Sometimes a tenant's architect will make this request, or the client will ask for the CAD drawings "for his records", or the client will insist that I give the CAD files to the tenant's architect or he will lose the tenant.
I'd like to know how other architects feel about giving their work away and how they handle these requests. I'm all for being a team member but if I'm competing to be the tenant's architect I'm not interested in saving him the time and money it took to create the work. 
Any comments?

-------------------------------------------
Peter Elkin AIA
Peter Elkin Architect
Brentwood NY
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This issue has far less to do with saving someone time or money and everything to do with liability. I've often been instructed to not share even bare bones CAD drawings without a release from the recipient.
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Daniel Alter AIA
Daniel Alter Architect PLLC
Brooklyn NY
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Original Message:
Sent: 8/7/2013 7:45:53 PM
From: Peterelkin@aol.com
Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings

I am often asked by contractors, clients, and other architects working on my projects to provide them with my CAD drawings so they don't have to draw the backgrounds and can get on with their work. Usually I comply, if I know them and am working with them, but I usually make a bare-bones copy and erase all information that they don't need.  Sometimes a tenant's architect will make this request, or the client will ask for the CAD drawings "for his records", or the client will insist that I give the CAD files to the tenant's architect or he will lose the tenant. I'd like to know how other architects feel about giving their work away and how they handle these requests. I'm all for being a team member but if I'm competing to be the tenant's architect I'm not interested in saving him the time and money it took to create the work.  Any comments? ------------------------------------------- Peter Elkin AIA Peter Elkin Architect Brentwood NY -------------------------------------------

I send a boilerplate release document that they are required to sign absolving me and my firm for any responsibility for the accuracy of the files, the work product they develop based on our files, consequences, etc. Once the signed form comes back, then we'll email the files.

Some firms charge a document-retrieval fee as well in order to cover the time spent on preparing CAD files, transmitting, etc. If it's a client or someone I have a relationship with, I'll waive the fee. But if it's someone I don't know and they're benefiting from the "knowledge" we're imparting, then charging is definitely appropriate, again, with a signed release.

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Richard Becker AIA
President
Becker Architects, Ltd.
Highland Park IL
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-07-2013 19:45
From: Peter Elkin
Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings

I am often asked by contractors, clients, and other architects working on my projects to provide them with my CAD drawings so they don't have to draw the backgrounds and can get on with their work. Usually I comply, if I know them and am working with them, but I usually make a bare-bones copy and erase all information that they don't need. 
Sometimes a tenant's architect will make this request, or the client will ask for the CAD drawings "for his records", or the client will insist that I give the CAD files to the tenant's architect or he will lose the tenant.
I'd like to know how other architects feel about giving their work away and how they handle these requests. I'm all for being a team member but if I'm competing to be the tenant's architect I'm not interested in saving him the time and money it took to create the work. 
Any comments?

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Peter Elkin AIA
Peter Elkin Architect
Brentwood NY
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We do have a release form and charge $250 for the first file and $100 for each additional file. So a full set of drawings can add up. It makes subs and etc. think twice about asking for more than they need. It pays us for our time to strip/ clean up/ translate the files for their use. It's saving them time and money even at paying us this nominal fee. Obviously, there are some clients/situations we provide the drawings with no charge depending on the relationship. Our specs state the fees and terms for contractors and subs so they can't claim ignorance. They have to deliver the filled out and signed form with their check to receive the files. Good contractors understand.

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Pamela Leonard AIA
Architect
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I agree with Stephen Casey, CAD files are an instrument of our service. No editor would dream of asking for a writers MS Word document without a release of liability and copyright authorization, as such anyone else in our industry is subject to the same standard. I have found though, that PDF versions of other architects drawings are far more useful than the CAD files themselves. This mostly because sloppy CAD work is tougher to work with than cleaned up information one might find a finished PDF drawing. Having worked as both an architect and a contractor, I find it cumbersome and time consuming to have to decypher a pervious architect or engineers CAD Standard, if they even used one, simply to get the line work. With exception to Institutional clients, which maintain a uniform, rigorous and stringent CAD Standard for Facility Maintenance purposes as well as for all of their projects, asking for CAD fies does not really help other architects or contractors produce their work. ....but if they insist, treat it like the manuscript of your latest novel. ------------------------------------------- Ricardo Ramos Assoc. AIA, LEED® AP, CSI Arcadia CA -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 08-08-2013 23:12 From: Richard Becker Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings I send a boilerplate release document that they are required to sign absolving me and my firm for any responsibility for the accuracy of the files, the work product they develop based on our files, consequences, etc. Once the signed form comes back, then we'll email the files. Some firms charge a document-retrieval fee as well in order to cover the time spent on preparing CAD files, transmitting, etc. If it's a client or someone I have a relationship with, I'll waive the fee. But if it's someone I don't know and they're benefiting from the "knowledge" we're imparting, then charging is definitely appropriate, again, with a signed release. ------------------------------------------- Richard Becker AIA President Becker Architects, Ltd. Highland Park IL -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 08-07-2013 19:45 From: Peter Elkin Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings I am often asked by contractors, clients, and other architects working on my projects to provide them with my CAD drawings so they don't have to draw the backgrounds and can get on with their work. Usually I comply, if I know them and am working with them, but I usually make a bare-bones copy and erase all information that they don't need. Sometimes a tenant's architect will make this request, or the client will ask for the CAD drawings "for his records", or the client will insist that I give the CAD files to the tenant's architect or he will lose the tenant. I'd like to know how other architects feel about giving their work away and how they handle these requests. I'm all for being a team member but if I'm competing to be the tenant's architect I'm not interested in saving him the time and money it took to create the work. Any comments? ------------------------------------------- Peter Elkin AIA Peter Elkin Architect Brentwood NY -------------------------------------------

Peter,

Our professional liability insurance carrier has a standard form that we use to fill in information such as type of CADD file and version that will be provided as well as which CADD files.  This form states that because we have supplied the CADD file it is still the duty of the person receiving the file to verify all conditions, new or exising.   Also, the form states the files cannot be re-distrubted without our approval first.   But there is also another form provided by our insurance carrier that does allow for the Owner to become the Owner of the files and use as they need.  But this form totally dissolves any liabiltiy we may have for providing the file.

As for compensation, our practice has been to provide the file(s) to members of the project team at no cost.  I know many firms that do charge as contractors have told me of such.  As long as we do not have to spend more than a few minutes converting or emailing the files then we see it as being part of the team. 

However, if we are supplying the file for re-distrubution then we do charge for the files.

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Donald Oakley AIA
Architect/Partner
Studio Oakley Architects, LLC
Lebanon TN
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-07-2013 19:45
From: Peter Elkin
Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings

I am often asked by contractors, clients, and other architects working on my projects to provide them with my CAD drawings so they don't have to draw the backgrounds and can get on with their work. Usually I comply, if I know them and am working with them, but I usually make a bare-bones copy and erase all information that they don't need. 
Sometimes a tenant's architect will make this request, or the client will ask for the CAD drawings "for his records", or the client will insist that I give the CAD files to the tenant's architect or he will lose the tenant.
I'd like to know how other architects feel about giving their work away and how they handle these requests. I'm all for being a team member but if I'm competing to be the tenant's architect I'm not interested in saving him the time and money it took to create the work. 
Any comments?

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Peter Elkin AIA
Peter Elkin Architect
Brentwood NY
-------------------------------------------

We are typically very open about sharing base files, files for older completed projects, etc.  We find we have similar needs all the time, and may have a similar request in the future, and appreciate the same openness.  We do require a pretty typical release of liability, recipient to verify conditions, etc.  If we were owed money the situation may be different, and if a client is using our drawings to generate revenue it may be different.

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James Zack AIA
Architect / Principal
Zack/de Vito Architecture + Construction
San Francisco CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-09-2013 11:17
From: Donald Oakley
Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings

Peter,

Our professional liability insurance carrier has a standard form that we use to fill in information such as type of CADD file and version that will be provided as well as which CADD files.  This form states that because we have supplied the CADD file it is still the duty of the person receiving the file to verify all conditions, new or exising.   Also, the form states the files cannot be re-distrubted without our approval first.   But there is also another form provided by our insurance carrier that does allow for the Owner to become the Owner of the files and use as they need.  But this form totally dissolves any liabiltiy we may have for providing the file.

As for compensation, our practice has been to provide the file(s) to members of the project team at no cost.  I know many firms that do charge as contractors have told me of such.  As long as we do not have to spend more than a few minutes converting or emailing the files then we see it as being part of the team. 

However, if we are supplying the file for re-distrubution then we do charge for the files.

-------------------------------------------
Donald Oakley AIA
Architect/Partner
Studio Oakley Architects, LLC
Lebanon TN
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-07-2013 19:45
From: Peter Elkin
Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings

I am often asked by contractors, clients, and other architects working on my projects to provide them with my CAD drawings so they don't have to draw the backgrounds and can get on with their work. Usually I comply, if I know them and am working with them, but I usually make a bare-bones copy and erase all information that they don't need. 
Sometimes a tenant's architect will make this request, or the client will ask for the CAD drawings "for his records", or the client will insist that I give the CAD files to the tenant's architect or he will lose the tenant.
I'd like to know how other architects feel about giving their work away and how they handle these requests. I'm all for being a team member but if I'm competing to be the tenant's architect I'm not interested in saving him the time and money it took to create the work. 
Any comments?

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Peter Elkin AIA
Peter Elkin Architect
Brentwood NY
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I do not provide CAD files. I charge $125 per hard-copy sheet, plus $50 postage/handling. There is no guarantee that the contractor built it to 100% of the listed dimensions. The hard copies can be used as a schematic layout, but anyone still has to verify as-built conditions. For a custom residence with, say, 12 sheets of floor plans, elevations, and building sections (excluding wall sections, details, etc.), $1,550 is cheap if you had to start from scratch to measure the building. And chances are that one does not need all of the sheets. ------------------------------------------- W. Douglas Gilpin, Jr. FAIA W. Douglas Gilpin, Jr. FAIA - Architect, PLC Charlottesville, VA and Block Island, RI -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 08-09-2013 11:17 From: Donald Oakley Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings Peter, Our professional liability insurance carrier has a standard form that we use to fill in information such as type of CADD file and version that will be provided as well as which CADD files. This form states that because we have supplied the CADD file it is still the duty of the person receiving the file to verify all conditions, new or exising. Also, the form states the files cannot be re-distrubted without our approval first. But there is also another form provided by our insurance carrier that does allow for the Owner to become the Owner of the files and use as they need. But this form totally dissolves any liabiltiy we may have for providing the file. As for compensation, our practice has been to provide the file(s) to members of the project team at no cost. I know many firms that do charge as contractors have told me of such. As long as we do not have to spend more than a few minutes converting or emailing the files then we see it as being part of the team. However, if we are supplying the file for re-distrubution then we do charge for the files. ------------------------------------------- Donald Oakley AIA Architect/Partner Studio Oakley Architects, LLC Lebanon TN -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 08-07-2013 19:45 From: Peter Elkin Subject: Letting others have my CAD drawings I am often asked by contractors, clients, and other architects working on my projects to provide them with my CAD drawings so they don't have to draw the backgrounds and can get on with their work. Usually I comply, if I know them and am working with them, but I usually make a bare-bones copy and erase all information that they don't need. Sometimes a tenant's architect will make this request, or the client will ask for the CAD drawings "for his records", or the client will insist that I give the CAD files to the tenant's architect or he will lose the tenant. I'd like to know how other architects feel about giving their work away and how they handle these requests. I'm all for being a team member but if I'm competing to be the tenant's architect I'm not interested in saving him the time and money it took to create the work. Any comments? ------------------------------------------- Peter Elkin AIA Peter Elkin Architect Brentwood NY -------------------------------------------