Small Project Design

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  • 1.  Autodesk's Free upgrade with a hidden agenda

    Posted 05-06-2013 01:53 PM
    This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Small Project Practitioners and Technology in Architectural Practice .
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    A few months ago I received an email from my Autodesk reseller about this wonderful upgrade from my Architectural Design Suite to Building Design Suite AT NO CHARGE.  I thought, " How nice.  Autodesk is appreciating our industries', and my own business', long time patronage."  
    Unfortunately, much to the contrary.  Autodesk, in their infinite wisdom, has decided they KNOW what my architectural firm needs (AutoCAD Architecture, AutoCAD MEP & AutoCAD Structural detailing along with Revit, 3D Studio MAX and programs that I do not know how I have managed without for the pass 20 years!) and with their free upgrade has forced my subscription to the more expensive Building Design Suite subscription.
    I inquired about staying with what I originally purchased and was told that if I did not accept the free upgrade, my subscriptions could not be continued and I would not be able to upgrade any of my software without purchasing a new seat/license.  Thinking this couldn't be true, I asked the reseller to have the manufacturer's rep contact me. When the manufactures' rep contacted me, she said she understood my concerns, but that I surely must be confused about the benefits of this bundle of software.  She would come into my Architecture firm and point out the benefits of all these extraneous programs so I could see what I was missing.  I restated that fact we are a small (8 person) Architectural firm and did not provide MEP or Structural services--my consultants do.  She insisted I was missing the point. I also explained that we are trying to break into using Revit/BIM, but have found it a difficult transition for the smaller, tighter budgeted projects that are typical to a small firm. Again, it was almost like speaking to a robot. She chose to ignore my concerns and remind me of the error of my thoughts.
    My question or point to the TAP community: Are you feeling similarly forced into these programs/subscriptions by the manufacturer?  Do you feel the software could and should be bundled similarly to Adobe Creative Suites or Microsoft's Office Suites where you can choose the programs YOU need? I'd love to hear the A/E community's  feedback.  
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    Judith Miller AIA
    Architecture by Design
    Ellicott City MD
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  • 2.  RE:Autodesk's Free upgrade with a hidden agenda

    Posted 05-02-2013 10:03 AM
    I agree whole heartedly.

    We are a 7 person firm with 5 seats.  We were "forced" to upgrade or they would no longer keep our subscription or provide the needed support.  I love working with my re-seller.  Excellent service.  This is coming down direct from Autodesk.

    We use the basic package, AutoCad Architecture, Revit Architecture, but were "forced" to take on the entire suite of very expensive software, most of which is more expensive and less performing than others on the market.  We do a lot of concept design on Google Sketchup before moving into Revit.  We were specifically told by AutoDesk that the Sketchbook was nearly the same and as intuitive to use.  Total Hogwash.  Sketchbook is not intuitive,  we don't need structural or MEP packages (those are for the consultants) and the expensive rendering componenets don't do as nice a job as the standard Photoshop package.

    I think we the users should have some input on the "packages" and not be forced to buy what we do not need.

    Anyone at AutoDesk Listening?!?!? 

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    David Cameron AIA
    Architect
    Cameron Aslaksen Architects, LLC
    Reedsburg WI
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  • 3.  RE:Autodesk's Free upgrade with a hidden agenda

    Posted 05-03-2013 06:46 PM
    From David's post below:  "Anyone at AutoDesk Listening?!?!?"

    We will never get what we need or want from Autodesk.  Autodesk is a for-profit corporation.   I think the question should be "Is anyone at the AIA listening?"  The AIA should be the primary means for how these tools are designed such that an architect can use them seamlessly.  The AIA could be a strong singular voice on this issue.  Unfortunately it is not.

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    Ken Brogno AIA
    Architect AIA LEED AP
    San Francisco CA
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  • 4.  RE:Autodesk's Free upgrade with a hidden agenda

    Posted 05-06-2013 07:16 PM
    The bottom line is that Autodesk has invested a lot of money in Revit software and it is not producing the demand they envisioned. They are forcing this software on the architects because the engineers won't buy it. Most engineers we work with are not using it. State and local governments in Maryland are not using it and do not plan to.

    So they have a captive audience, the architects, and they know we will not get together and boycott them, so again they have us. The small firms who can not afford this or do not need or use this but are afraid to be stranded without software that is really designed for the big firms.

    I do not know anyone who has a MEP license, and architecture license and a structural engineering all in one. My insurance will not cover me to preform engineering design with my architectural license.

    No client I have is going to pay me to redraw my engineers work no matter what sales pitch I give them. Buying out of fear not need is always a bad idea.

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    Kathleen Starghill-Sherrill AIA
    Principal
    SP Arch
    Windsor Mill MD
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  • 5.  RE:Autodesk's Free upgrade with a hidden agenda

    Posted 05-06-2013 10:43 AM

    ACAD had been a mainstay in my work since the mid 1990's. There are a few practitioners out there who didn't take it up, and some are still working with pencil on vellum, and it's still their practice. Though they are ageing out, there may always be a niche somewhere.

    REVIT's affect on the practice will be similar but bigger than the ACAD effect. REVIT addresses designers needs, and accommodates the production as well.   

    Autodesk appears mercenary pushing its design tools, but what enterprise is pushing yesterday's products when they have a replacement that's superior? If you are happy with a  hand saw, maybe you are doing fine wood cabinetry the way you learned it and that's OK. It isn't about whether the new tools are what you are "supposed to do".  As with all technology, doors open to places that really didn't exist before.  

    As for the costs of things, all that changed as of 2008, there's a new economy and no return to doing business as before. The way to prosper in our business is about finding value in services to provide, and that's not new, but maybe more important these days..                      
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    Allen E Neyman
    Rockville, MD

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  • 6.  RE:Autodesk's Free upgrade with a hidden agenda

    Posted 05-02-2013 11:48 AM
    Judith-

    When I accepted the upgrade, I went with only the Standard Suite which did not include the Revit stuff.  My bump is only $30 per renewal.  I've actually started using the other modules, (self taught) and see where it will be useful to me in the long haul, so $30 is a bargain.  While AutoCAD Architecture has been relegated to the "Red headed step-child" of the team, I don't have the time or the resources to move to the "wunderkind".  I wonder when we are going to be forced to be Revit-ized.

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    Robert Collins AIA
    VP Real Estate Services
    Wise Way Foods
    Merrillville IN
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  • 7.  RE:Autodesk's Free upgrade with a hidden agenda

    Posted 05-03-2013 05:19 PM

    Dear All,

    Let me assure you that Autodesk is listening. I work on the AEC industry team at Autodesk, and would like to offer an explanation about the upgrades you have received.

    In an effort to simplify our product offerings, Autodesk discontinued new licenses and Subscription for the AutoCAD Revit Suites last year. This change gives customers two ways to purchase Revit products - through standalone licenses of Revit Architecture, Revit MEP, or Revit Structure or by purchasing a license of Autodesk Building Design Suite Premium and Ultimate editions, which include Autodesk Revit which is a a single application that includes features for architectural design, MEP and structural engineering, and construction. As a result of the discontinuation, AutoCAD Revit Suite customers' Subscription entitlements were changed to Building Design Suite Premium, which is the most comparable offering because it includes all of the products in the AutoCAD Revit Suites, plus additional products and services. Our aim was to ensure that AutoCAD Revit Suites customers experienced a smooth transition to a product that would fully support their workflow needs.

    The upgrade to Building Design Suite Premium from the AutoCAD Revit Suites came at no cost to Subscription customers, however, as you have experienced, customers will see a difference in their Subscription renewal fee. What may not have been explained to you is that recently Autodesk increased Subscription renewals fees on most of our products, with the exception of our Design and Creation Suites. This price increase was in-line with standard software price increases over time, a practice that we don't implement often, but was necessary to support our investments in changing technology to support our customers' needs.  It should also be noted that as an Autodesk customer you do always have the option of declining subscription renewal but this would prevent having access to many of the additional services provided as part of the Autodesk Subscription program. 

    Autodesk is committed to adding value to our Subscription program. In addition to providing access to new releases, technical support, and flexible licensing, Subscription customers are now entitled to Autodesk 360 cloud services. Subscription customers receive 25GB of cloud-based storage per seat, and 100 cloud credits per seat that can be applied to cloud services such as rendering, energy analysis, and structural analysis. These cloud services are particularly beneficial for firms that need to perform compute-intensive tasks like rendering or analysis, but cannot or do not want to invest in the expensive hardware required for these tasks.

    The model for Autodesk's Design and Creation Suites is not unlike Microsoft's Office Suite or Adobe's Creative Suite. Building Design Suite was created to be a comprehensive solution to help our customers take full advantage of BIM workflows and their model-based designs. You may not use all of the tools in the suite every day, just as you may not use all of the products in the Microsoft and Adobe suites. However, even if you use two products in Building Design Suite on a regular basis, it's more cost effective than purchasing or maintaining Subscription fees for those products individually. 

    The feedback on this forum has been valuable to me, and I assure you that Autodesk is considering ways to give you more flexibility in how you license our products. I welcome your ideas on this topic, either in this forum or by contacting me directly at angi.izzi@autodesk.com.

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    Angi Izzi
    Sr. Manager, AEC Industry Strategy & Marketing
    Autodesk, Inc.


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  • 8.  RE:Autodesk's Free upgrade with a hidden agenda

    Posted 05-06-2013 05:53 PM
    Dear Angi and Autodesk:

    In the past, it was claimed that 75% of licensed architects worked in five person or less firms.  I would guess that stat is still more or less true today.  I suspect that there are almost no five person architectural firms who need or want software for mechanical, structural, electrical, etc. software.  If you want to generate goodwill, give these people the software they want, upgrades when they want them, subscription rates that are not just money grabs by Autodesk with little benefit only threats (if you don't subscribe) given in return, and you would significantly lessen the hatred that exists for Autodesk in our industry.  For instance, very few of those five-person firms want or need a Civil Engineer with a Civil BIM package to be involved in their size projects.  I believe you would make many architects very happy and eager to pay for an upgrade if Autodesk really improved the site tools in Revit so the parking lot, walks, etc. could be easy to create and truly be part of the BIM package of information.  This has been a major complaint among Architects for ten years and Autodesk, so far, shows no signs of having listened at all.

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    Darrel Odom AIA, LEED AP
    President
    Odom Peckham Architecture, Inc.
    Little Rock AR
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  • 9.  RE:Autodesk's Free upgrade with a hidden agenda

    Posted 05-06-2013 01:53 PM


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    P. Frantz AIA
    P. Richard Frantz, AIA, Architect
    Pottstown PA
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    Because of this nonsense, as a sole pratitioner I have used DataCAD.  It is a program written by architects for architects.  I have found that it does everything that I want/need and then some.  It is VERY affordable.