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When to change into SI Units?

  • 1.  When to change into SI Units?

    Posted 05-08-2024 08:29 PM

    The Global Practice Committee / US architects should discuss when and how to quit using outdated feet and inches and join the rest of the world with SI units. 

    Gov. Civil, and engineering and most of the rest US trades are with SI, but architecture / Construction industries


    Hiroki Miyauchi, AIA 

    hmiyauchi@gmail.com
    714.721.7727
    Newport Beach, CA, USA
    &
    Fujisawa, Kanagawa, Japan



  • 2.  RE: When to change into SI Units?

    Posted 05-09-2024 03:59 PM

    The USA is unlikely to adopt the metric system due to the modular nature of our empirical system, such as the common 2x4 measurements. For instance, a standard sheet of drywall measuring 4' x 8' aligns perfectly with studs spaced at 16" on center. However, if measurements were in metric, the drywall wouldn't align with the studs. Despite the metric system often being included in parenthesis, it remains impractical for the construction industry in the USA.

     

     

    If you have questions, feel free to call us anytime.

    Thank you,

    Ahmed H. Aich - AIA.

    Plan Examiner / Building Inspector

    Development Services Department 

    Village of Orland Park 14700 Ravinia Avenue | Orland Park, Illinois 60462

    Ph. 708.403.6223 | aaich@orlandpark.org

     

    P Think Green - please do not print this email unless necessary.

     

     






  • 3.  RE: When to change into SI Units?

    Posted 05-10-2024 07:26 AM

    Metric systems follow the same principle as the "modular" system you mentioned.  Building material sizes are adapted accordingly, i.e. the 4' x 8' drywall sheet is simply 1.2m x 2.4m and stud spacing follows standard spacing that matches the material. 

    It's a too shortsighted argument to say that the US can't change because the studs won't line up if we just rename a 4'x8' standard measurement to its a metric equivalent. A far more nuanced argument is the massive system change required to now make the change a reality and the time/money cost associated with it.



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    Jason Holland AIA
    STUDIO DOHO
    Shanghai
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  • 4.  RE: When to change into SI Units?

    Posted 05-10-2024 03:00 PM
    Edited by Marina Wray, AIA 05-13-2024 01:27 PM

    I grew up with the metric system which is derived from a division of the circumference of the globe. It was necessary and convenient at the time of the era of Enlightenment to unify different measuring systems into the base unit of measurement that created the SIU (Système international d’unités). I became an architect using the metric system; Le Corbusier's Modulor, his effort to relate the metric system to the human body, to me, was imperfect; alas, the average human height is not Modulor's 1.829 meters, it is 1.676 meters, or five-and-a-half feet. When I came to the US in the eighties for graduate school I immediately fell in love with the Imperial System of Units because by being anthropocentric, in my mind it was more relatable for architecture. And yet, I dislike the term Imperial and few people know it is also called the Exchequer Standard, so I refer to the system as feet-and-inches and I like to use it when I design.

    Ignacio Correa-Ortiz AIA, AICP CUD




  • 5.  RE: When to change into SI Units?

    Posted 05-14-2024 12:59 PM
    I have had experience in metric in the UK and Brazil, but most of my experience is with feet and inches. The beauty of metric is how measurements in length and weight are so directly connected. However, as a professor of mine at the Polytechnic of Central London pointed out, the fact that the English system units are divisible by 2, 3, 4, and 6 as compared to just 2 and 5 with metric offers many advantages in proportion and modulation.

    Rob Eisenstat, FAIA
    Sent from my iPhone




  • 6.  RE: When to change into SI Units?

    Posted 05-14-2024 11:25 PM

    The issue concerning the unitary measure metric VS imperial is to my mind more about the way building material is nominally  identified and utilized - imperial nomenclature for example the 2 x 4 isn't a 2" x 4" anything it's 1.5"x 3.5" and used to be 1"7/8 x 3"7/8 and a 2" pipe depending on its material and use can be neither 2" outside diameter or inside - in Australia we use 90x45 timber studs as a metricised 2x4  ply wood is 1200 x 2400mm by 12 mm not really embracing the metric system 

    in Germany one would be most likely using a 100 x 50 mm which actually measures 100 and 50 mm which is very helpful when building and designing - 

    coubusier identified his critical module as 1 cm 

    which must be more precise than 1" 



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    Jose Alfano AIA
    Alfano Pty Ltd / Alfano Studio Architects
    Somers
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  • 7.  RE: When to change into SI Units?

    Posted 05-15-2024 09:29 AM

    There is precision in any metric system for any measurement. Precision is achievable on any system. I believe that it is not a valid argument, to use Corbusier as a reference could call any other architect on his/ her preference for a measurement system.

    Architecture was born using proportions, sequences, math, and nature. 
    How do we design any space? It should be in human proportions like in the ancestral beginning, like thousands of years of practice. Is a shame to have lost the sense of dimensional proportions.
    architecture is not a technical discussion, we are creating something with enormous consequences for the occupants of every physical space that we build. 

    This discussion should not be about the kind of measuring tape we should use, we should discuss how we can improve the experience through the space for all the buildings we make. Measuring tapes have both systems on them, in the same way, we should use the same analogy to integrate our thoughts and ideas.  Is not what is better the question is how can we use both to improve our buildings. 

    A room with dimensions: 13x12 ft or:  3.96x3.65 m  which dimension makes more sense ???
    The same way:    3.5 cm or  1" 3/8?

    Maybe we can use [ mm or cm ] for small things and [ ft ] for big areas. Why we should choose?   both have advantages we can use both, and we should;   with all the technological advances in machines, tools, and software we don't have to choose, we can explore ways to improve architecture in more creative ways. Fighting for who is right on any preference brings war, taking the best of all parts using their best qualities, brings evolution. 

    MC



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    Mauricio Cardenas
    MTX Architecture
    Houston TX
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  • 8.  RE: When to change into SI Units?

    Posted 05-12-2024 10:26 PM
    100% agree. SI changes are overdue.
    US doesn't need to be only different one. 
    AIA should be pushing for politicies like this for more integration.






  • 9.  RE: When to change into SI Units?

    Posted 05-13-2024 08:57 AM

    I have used both metric systems for years.  If the rest of the world uses metric, it is fine,    but it is far more practical to use the US metric system.  The inches is a system more related to human proportions, as it should be and has been for centuries; metric systems have different origins. There is no real benefit to using metrics none at all. I do architectural design and construction and is wide, wider more practical to have changed from metrical to inches.   NEVER  change to metric, please !. 



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    Mauricio Cardenas
    URBANIKA
    conroe TX
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  • 10.  RE: When to change into SI Units?

    Posted 05-13-2024 08:59 AM
    Bit of history on this subject. Back during the Jimmy Carter administration there was an executive  order to change the country to metric. I remember in middle school we were studying it and our science teacher said by 1980 the entire country will be metric and on the same pages all other countries regarding measurements.  

    However, Carter lost the 1980 election to Ronald Reagan. Reagan was heavily supported by the building construction industry, which was very hesitant to make any changes due to the costs involved, both on retraining, construction workers, and the vendors all needing to change the measurement system in factories. Also a lot of GCs made tons of money on change orders due to Architect and Engineers making maths mistakes with the more complicated existing feet inch system.  

    Those building industry executors made lots of campaign contributions to the Republican Ronald Reagan. So Ronald Reagan in quid pro quo resend it Carter's executive order.

    But the military and GSA actually had changed over already by 1980 and continue to use metric

    Also some state agencies like California's Caltrans uses metric.

    I've worked on some projects where we've had to interface with Caltrans and end up with two different measurement systems. One on the private side of the project and on the Caltrans side of the project to complications and coordination and being mindful not to make math mistakes.

    And in the meantime, since 1980 American businesses trying to do overseas exports have suffered. I was working on a project in Dubai and we had to go with a European furniture system because the American company's feet inch module furniture did not fit.

    I'm surprised still in this age of high globalization we have not switched to metric despite the short term cost, it's the long-term benefits, sure outweigh those short-term costs

    Thank you and Best Regards,

    Remi Tan, AIA LEED AP BD+C 

    Architecture, Green Building
    Real estate investment and brokerage

    650 291 3097

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 11.  RE: When to change into SI Units?

    Posted 05-12-2024 10:24 PM
    Edited by Marina Wray, AIA 05-14-2024 11:24 PM

    The metric system has corresponding modularities which follow the Imperial system almost exactly. Instead of using 2x4 at 16" centers, one would use 45x70 mm studs at 400 mm centers, with 1200 mm drywall sheets. Once in place, the difference would not be noticable to the naked eye.



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    Peter Jurmala AIA
    SWECO Architects AB
    Stockholm
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  • 12.  RE: When to change into SI Units?

    Posted 05-13-2024 01:28 PM
    Being an internationally licensed Architect in Mexico and Texas, USA. I can use both systems without thinking too much over the conversion..
    The Metric system is far simpler to use than the Imperial system.
    But as someone else here has posted, most materials like plywood, sheetrock, etc are nominal 4'x8' which are in fact 1.22meters x 2.44 meters, or 122 cms x 244 cms...

    The fractions are what make the imperial system challenging to people learning it.
    Been involved in having to convert Designs from Imperial to translate them into Construction Documents in Metric, and they usually require a bit of clean up and fudging elements to have them space out in a logical metric arrangement.


    William Webb
    Arquitecto / Architect
    Austin , Texas
    Cancun , Mexico