Edward, amazing story. When I came to the US in 2000, I couldn't understand how in the US a 5 years architecture program could be legal without NAAB accreditation. Still I think it is wrong. If you study 5 years or 6 years (our study program), you become a graduate architect, while the program has the education required to become one. If this is not in this way, then you cannot offer this architecture program, that is my logic, it is like a fraud.
Then, the license needs to be mandatory, it is the professional recognition and a way to have regulated our profession and protect the society.
Reciprocity is a very complex subject. Each country has different rules and regulations that you need to follow while you work within their jurisdiction.
I think each country needs to request to pass an exam just about their codes, regulations, and practice standards.
Referring to the US, taking the ARE when you are a licensed foreign architect makes no sense. We don't need to validate our core knowledge of architecture, we need to demonstrate we can work in the US, knowing the rules, regulations and practice standards, because the EESA-NAAB is validating our education as equivalent to US- NCARB standards.
-- Alejandra Molina-Jackson, AIA, NCARB, NCIDQ, LEED AP BD+C, GGP
Original Message:
Sent: 5/20/2024 10:57:00 PM
From: Edward R. Haysom AIA Member Emeritus
Subject: RE: Professional Associations' International Affiliations & Reciprocity
I have my own story to tell about licensing. I graduated from the University of Auckland in 1975, did my post graduation work under a licensed architect in Auckland, became registered after sitting the exam (which was an essay and an interview) I was offered an opportunity to work in Honolulu and some of the guys in the offices were sitting the licensing exam so I thought why not? I approached the registrar of the local Board who asked me whether my degree was a 5 year one. It was. OK he said - you can sit the professional exam. Two 8 hour exams plus a 12 hour design exam.
I studied hard and passed all three first go to become registered in the State of Hawaii. At that stage we were thinking of moving to California so I applied for NCARB status. The answer back from NCARB was no: your school does not have NAAB accreditation so you will need to go back to the Hawaii State Board and ask them if you can do the preliminary exam (I think that was what it was called)
Back I went to the registrar who just laughed and refused to let me sit it. So no NCARB
Fast forward to some years later. The office I worked for in Honolulu was doing a project on the Gold Coast in Queensland and I was sent because I was the only one who could speak Australian. I applied for registration in Queensland. They were a bit sniffy about my NZ registration but impressed by my US AIA (not NCARB) credentials. So I received Queensland registration. Only Queensland - but later I received NSW registration as we were doing projects there
I became National President of the Australian Institute of Architects in 2000 and became involved in discussions about reciprocity between Australia and the US. That meant negotiations with NCARB and NAAB representatives to whom I told my story. They were shocked but said there was nothing they could do (except to go back to do the preliminary exam!)
After my term as National President the Australian Government initiated "APEC Architect" to see if there could be reciprocity between the APEC nations. I was asked to be on the APEC Architect Committee. Initially we struck problems with Singapore Malaysia and Thailand who had protectionist barriers, but we had good support from the US and Canada Taiwan Korea and NZ, however the idea fell over in the end. Oddly Singapore firms are now a major presence in Vietnam, they having realized the benefits of exporting services. And they are very "western" in their approach!
------------------------------
Edward Haysom AIA Member Emeritus
Edward Haysom Person
Brisbane
------------------------------
Original Message:
Sent: 05-20-2024 01:41 PM
From: Gavin Maxwell
Subject: Professional Associations' International Affiliations & Reciprocity
Hi all,
my tuppence to the discussion (and if this has been highlighted already, I apologize for the repetition), but as a UK Architect living in the US, I think the education difference is years of qualification (3-year dedicated Architecture degree, followed by mandatory year working in practice, followed by 2-year Architecture diploma, followed by mandatory additional year in practice before being eligible to take the Architect Licence exam) versus, as I understand it, the US system of a degree followed by a set number of years (3?) of logged and approved work experience in an architectural practice prior to licence eligibility, is interesting.
I'm not advocating for either system, and they have a similar timeframe, but the time for pure architectural expression during an education framework in one, versus more time spent doing the nitty gritty of architectural practice in the real world in the other, do produce different outcomes.
It is a little disheartening to come to the US and find that my 7+ years of toil to become an architect are not acknowledged, but such is life. When in Rome etc. And the reciprocation process is very complicated.
I did get talking in a bar a while back with a chap who claimed to be an architect, and on further probing turned out to be a computer programmer, working on the "design" and "architecture" of computer programs.
For me, that is more upsetting and more of a slap in the face to the profession.
Gavin Maxwell, ARB (UK), Intl Assoc AIA
Original Message:
Sent: 5/15/2024 5:23:00 PM
From: Haresh Vibhakar AIA
Subject: RE: Professional Associations' International Affiliations & Reciprocity
Hi Alejandra & all who contributed to this conversation,
I was in a bizarre situation after graduating in India. The registration body "Council of Architecture" (COA) would not grant me a license since I was not an Indian citizen. I moved to the US in 2000 and after going through NAAB-EESA evaluations, IDP and clearing AREs, I received NCARB certification and a license in the state of OH. When I went back to India for a few years to work on a project, the COA would still not recognize me. I explained that nor was I a US citizen but still was recognized as an Architect after fulfilling NCARB requirements. The COA only granted me licensure when I obtained a Overseas Citizen of India document (Indian version of dual citizenship).
Want to highlight, that citizenship also plays into licensure (at least in India), which I understand is contrary to UIA's (original) memorandum. Don't know if this has changed but would like to understand/ know more.
------------------------------
Haresh Vibhakar AIA
Default Person Account 1
San Diego CA
Original Message:
Sent: 04-25-2024 10:35 AM
From: Alejandra Molina-Jackson AIA
Subject: Professional Associations' International Affiliations & Reciprocity
Karl, foreing licensed Architects go throuh a long process to get the license in this country, same path you did as American graduated Architect, and like you those licensed Architects cannot call themself Architects here.Foreign licensed and not licensed Architects do the intership, need to pass NAAB-EESA and then take the ARE. The point of reciprocity is that. If you as AIA Architect (or not, just NCARB or Registered Arch in USA) want to work in other country, then reciprocity, do the same path. Do that country Intership, pass the Equivalencies, take the exams , then you can work in that country territory, and call yourself Architect, as you ask us here. That is the FAIR way.
------------------------------
Alejandra Molina-Jackson AIA
Arcadis Professional Services (USA) Inc.
Riviera Beach FL
Original Message:
Sent: 04-23-2024 11:12 AM
From: Karl Hartnack AIA Member Emeritus
Subject: Professional Associations' International Affiliations & Reciprocity
The AIA has no licensing authority. This is reserved for individual states or countries each of which have their own laws and standards. in the United States, these are determined by the NCARB. it would be wrong to Issue an American License on the basis of reciprocity to an architect of another country whose standards differ from those in the US.
Karl Hartnack AIA emeritus
Original Message:
Sent: 4/19/2024 11:20:00 AM
From: Alejandra Molina-Jackson AIA
Subject: RE: Professional Associations' International Affiliations & Reciprocity
Architects around the world have one organization representing all of us UIA that is organized by regions. AIA has no authority over other countries Architects Organizations. Not sure what is the purpose of creating AIA international chapters. When I came to US as licensed Architect from Argentina, the welcoming words were: "you are not Architect for us until you get the NAAB, complete the IDP and pass the 7 part exams. I did it and I helped other architects from Spain, Argentina, Colombia, suffering the same treatment to get their licenses. So reciprocity. They need to pass our exams and equivalencies to be called Architects in our countries.
Alejandra Molina-Jackson, AIA, NCARB, NCIDQ, LEED AP BD+C, GGP
Original Message:
Sent: 4/18/2024 7:47:00 AM
From: Olanrewaju G. Olusola Intl. Assoc. AIA
Subject: Professional Associations' International Affiliations & Reciprocity
In 2020, shortly after I assumed the position of Chair, International Affairs Committee of the @Nigerian Institute of Architects NIA (2019-2023), I sought to develop guidelines for international affiliations and reciprocity with similar professional associations within and beyond the continent. The result was the approval by the Executive Council in June 2021 of the NIA Guidelines on International Affiliations and Reciprocity document.
Professional Associations' International Affiliations & Reciprocity is a veritable tool for exchange of knowledge, education, peer review and professional development across cultures and idiosyncrasies. It is also a precursor to a possible exchange of practice professionals in a seamless manner through mutual recognition agreements. It is the desire of AIA members, and indeed that of licensed architects everywhere, to enjoy the liberty to practice their profession wherever they please. A recent case in point, is the MRA between the ARB (UK) and NCARB (USA), that provides a level playing field to licensed architects across both jurisdictions to seek to meet the minimum requirements for licensure in each other's territories.
Finally, the NIA and RIBA are at the verge of concluding the processes for a memorandum of understanding towards mutual international affiliation and reciprocity between both associations. This will further strengthen the chord of camaraderie between these organisations as well as open doors for others, with similar professional aspirations and objectives.
It is also good to know that the AIA has recently approved the formation of Sections of AIA International in Latin America, Southeast Asia, South Korea, Sub-Saharan Africa and Taipei. These are in addition to AIA International Chapters in Canada, Europe, Hong Kong, Japan, Middle East, Shangai and UK.
Share your thoughts on this.
------------------------------
Olanrewaju Olusola FNIA, Int'l Assoc.AIA
CEO
Creation Consult Solutions Ltd.
Abuja Nigeria
------------------------------