Custom Residential Architects Network

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Committee on Design and Custom Residential Architects Network .
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I have a question for human resources in architecture companies!
I will be moving to Las Vegas to attend UNLV for my bachelors in Architecture; after having completed my bachelors in Business Administration from the University of Wyoming (Dec 14).
My goal would be to find a good internship at an architecture company as I earn my degree at UNLV.  My question is if the average firm desires their new hire to have a masters in architecture, or if a bachelors would be sufficient given internship experience and business administration degree earned. 

I appreciate your feedback!  As 5+ year college student with a guaranteed 4 more years of school, It will be good to know when I can expect to be out of college living my dream of designing buildings and homes.  
 

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Jake Lara
University of Wyoming
Laramie WY
jlara2@uwyo.edu
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I'd say skip school and go to work full time if you can. I graduated with a Master's at 31 because I had to work to pay for it as I went to school. My son is 28 and has worked for me for three years with no architectural schooling. He knows as much s a licensed architect! Think school is over rated. Only my opinion. 

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John Stewart AIA
Stewart Associates Architects
San Carlos CA
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Mr Stewart,
Your mouth seems to speak faster than your brain.
Have your 28 yr old son pass the ARE then and only then say he knows more than a licensed architect.
Your opinion is at best a hastily generalization with no merit.
Dear Jake,
Having a 4 year degree in Business and then a 5 year Bachelor of Architecture degree would be pretty commendable. It seems mandatory that either a Bachelor of Arch degree or a Masters of Arch is primary to pursue a career in architecture (CA perspective). Education combined with experience is what the Licensing and Intern Development Program (IDP) is all about.
Good luck

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John Linnert AIA
Principal
John W. Linnert, AIA, Architecture
Costa Mesa CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 07-10-2014 18:03
From: John Stewart
Subject: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student

I'd say skip school and go to work full time if you can. I graduated with a Master's at 31 because I had to work to pay for it as I went to school. My son is 28 and has worked for me for three years with no architectural schooling. He knows as much s a licensed architect! Think school is over rated. Only my opinion. 

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John Stewart AIA
Stewart Associates Architects
San Carlos CA
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Jake,

A Bachelor of Architecture is a 5-year program. A Master of Architecture is a 3-year program. The result, an NAAB accredited degree is the same. Why would you want to go to school for an extra 2 years and end up with... a bachelor's degree. Get the Masters, save yourself 2 years, and get your career going.

Best,

David

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David Clarke AIA
Senior Architect
Williams Design Group, Inc.
Las Cruces NM


Original Message:
Sent: 07-09-2014 01:06
From: Jake Lara
Subject: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Committee on Design and Custom Residential Architects Network .
-------------------------------------------
I have a question for human resources in architecture companies!
I will be moving to Las Vegas to attend UNLV for my bachelors in Architecture; after having completed my bachelors in Business Administration from the University of Wyoming (Dec 14).
My goal would be to find a good internship at an architecture company as I earn my degree at UNLV.  My question is if the average firm desires their new hire to have a masters in architecture, or if a bachelors would be sufficient given internship experience and business administration degree earned. 

I appreciate your feedback!  As 5+ year college student with a guaranteed 4 more years of school, It will be good to know when I can expect to be out of college living my dream of designing buildings and homes.  
 

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Jake Lara
University of Wyoming
Laramie WY
jlara2@uwyo.edu
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Jake,

Doing an internship while going to school is a good idea.  However, it might take you longer depending on how much time you put in the office.  Some schools specialize in work/study programs.  You should look at many schools to see what fits your needs/desires best. Go for the Masters - with another degree under your belt, it will take less time than a 5yr. B.Arch.  Again find out what schools offer what.  Find the one that fits your goals.  Firms are looking for creative and ambitious people and not the school or degree.

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Edward Cazayoux FAIA
Principal/architect
EnvironMental Design
Breaux Bridge LA
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Original Message:
Sent: 07-14-2014 17:23
From: David Clarke
Subject: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student

Jake,

A Bachelor of Architecture is a 5-year program. A Master of Architecture is a 3-year program. The result, an NAAB accredited degree is the same. Why would you want to go to school for an extra 2 years and end up with... a bachelor's degree. Get the Masters, save yourself 2 years, and get your career going.

Best,

David

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David Clarke AIA
Senior Architect
Williams Design Group, Inc.
Las Cruces NM


Original Message:
Sent: 07-09-2014 01:06
From: Jake Lara
Subject: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Committee on Design and Custom Residential Architects Network .
-------------------------------------------
I have a question for human resources in architecture companies!
I will be moving to Las Vegas to attend UNLV for my bachelors in Architecture; after having completed my bachelors in Business Administration from the University of Wyoming (Dec 14).
My goal would be to find a good internship at an architecture company as I earn my degree at UNLV.  My question is if the average firm desires their new hire to have a masters in architecture, or if a bachelors would be sufficient given internship experience and business administration degree earned. 

I appreciate your feedback!  As 5+ year college student with a guaranteed 4 more years of school, It will be good to know when I can expect to be out of college living my dream of designing buildings and homes.  
 

-------------------------------------------
Jake Lara
University of Wyoming
Laramie WY
jlara2@uwyo.edu
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A master's will open more doors for you than a bachelor's degree.

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Edmund Garbee III
Principal Architect
Garbee Architecture, pllc
Chattanooga, Tennessee
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Original Message:
Sent: 07-14-2014 17:23
From: David Clarke
Subject: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student

Jake,

A Bachelor of Architecture is a 5-year program. A Master of Architecture is a 3-year program. The result, an NAAB accredited degree is the same. Why would you want to go to school for an extra 2 years and end up with... a bachelor's degree. Get the Masters, save yourself 2 years, and get your career going.

Best,

David

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David Clarke AIA
Senior Architect
Williams Design Group, Inc.
Las Cruces NM


Original Message:
Sent: 07-09-2014 01:06
From: Jake Lara
Subject: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Committee on Design and Custom Residential Architects Network .
-------------------------------------------
I have a question for human resources in architecture companies!
I will be moving to Las Vegas to attend UNLV for my bachelors in Architecture; after having completed my bachelors in Business Administration from the University of Wyoming (Dec 14).
My goal would be to find a good internship at an architecture company as I earn my degree at UNLV.  My question is if the average firm desires their new hire to have a masters in architecture, or if a bachelors would be sufficient given internship experience and business administration degree earned. 

I appreciate your feedback!  As 5+ year college student with a guaranteed 4 more years of school, It will be good to know when I can expect to be out of college living my dream of designing buildings and homes.  
 

-------------------------------------------
Jake Lara
University of Wyoming
Laramie WY
jlara2@uwyo.edu
-------------------------------------------

John et al,

ARCHITECTURAL EDUCATION
I have witnessed a movement whose objective is to dismiss the value of higher education.

We all know that Architecture school does not teach you how to be an architect, it prepares you to be a good intern architect.  To complete the education and training, you need to land a job with a firm that provides good mentoring.  However, pursuing the profession without proper education up front treats architecture like a trade instead of a profession.  Well-rounded professionals is what we need, and we get them from accredited universities, not vocational schools.  I believe you can eventually get good training, but it will take a lot more years than the 5+3 year formula, and you will never have experienced such classroom discussions or researched such subjects as those regarding design theory, architectural history, professional ethics and the like unless you have an amazing mentor.

Defend architecture schools and higher education!  Don't let the "business bottom line" oriented crowd dumb down our profession.
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Adam Trott AIA
Owner
Adam J. Trott Architect
Erie PA
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Original Message:
Sent: 07-11-2014 00:30
From: John Linnert
Subject: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student

Mr Stewart,
Your mouth seems to speak faster than your brain.
Have your 28 yr old son pass the ARE then and only then say he knows more than a licensed architect.
Your opinion is at best a hastily generalization with no merit.
Dear Jake,
Having a 4 year degree in Business and then a 5 year Bachelor of Architecture degree would be pretty commendable. It seems mandatory that either a Bachelor of Arch degree or a Masters of Arch is primary to pursue a career in architecture (CA perspective). Education combined with experience is what the Licensing and Intern Development Program (IDP) is all about.
Good luck

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John Linnert AIA
Principal
John W. Linnert, AIA, Architecture
Costa Mesa CA
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Mr Linnert, you don't have to be nasty about it. Mr Stewart, skipping school is terrible advise. Anyone who wants to pursue a carrer in architecture and has the opportunity to go to school should jump at the chance to do so. I became an architect after 30 plus years and passing the ARE but without a degree I am treated as an outsider by degreed architects and NCARB. I have no chance for reciprocity in many states. I had no opportunity to pursue a traditional path but I can tell you not one day passes that I don't regret it. ------------------------------------------- Christopher Caponigro AIA Owner Christopher F. Caponigro Charleston SC -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 07-11-2014 00:30 From: John Linnert Subject: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student Mr Stewart, Your mouth seems to speak faster than your brain. Have your 28 yr old son pass the ARE then and only then say he knows more than a licensed architect. Your opinion is at best a hastily generalization with no merit. Dear Jake, Having a 4 year degree in Business and then a 5 year Bachelor of Architecture degree would be pretty commendable. It seems mandatory that either a Bachelor of Arch degree or a Masters of Arch is primary to pursue a career in architecture (CA perspective). Education combined with experience is what the Licensing and Intern Development Program (IDP) is all about. Good luck ------------------------------------------- John Linnert AIA Principal John W. Linnert, AIA, Architecture Costa Mesa CA -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 07-10-2014 18:03 From: John Stewart Subject: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student I'd say skip school and go to work full time if you can. I graduated with a Master's at 31 because I had to work to pay for it as I went to school. My son is 28 and has worked for me for three years with no architectural schooling. He knows as much s a licensed architect! Think school is over rated. Only my opinion. ------------------------------------------- John Stewart AIA Stewart Associates Architects San Carlos CA -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 07-09-2014 01:06 From: Jake Lara Subject: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Committee on Design and Custom Residential Architects Network . ------------------------------------------- I have a question for human resources in architecture companies! I will be moving to Las Vegas to attend UNLV for my bachelors in Architecture; after having completed my bachelors in Business Administration from the University of Wyoming (Dec 14). My goal would be to find a good internship at an architecture company as I earn my degree at UNLV. My question is if the average firm desires their new hire to have a masters in architecture, or if a bachelors would be sufficient given internship experience and business administration degree earned. I appreciate your feedback! As 5+ year college student with a guaranteed 4 more years of school, It will be good to know when I can expect to be out of college living my dream of designing buildings and homes. ------------------------------------------- Jake Lara University of Wyoming Laramie WY jlara2@uwyo.edu -------------------------------------------

I prefaced it by saying in my opinion! I have been in business over 30 years and have had lots of employees licensed and unlicensed!he is getting a great education here! My son plans to take the ARE with 8 years of experience without attending Architecture School! He will be doing IDP of course! Will report back!
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John Stewart AIA
Stewart Associates Architects
San Carlos CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 7/11/2014 12:30:56 AM
From: jwlaia@gmail.com
Subject: RE: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student

Mr Stewart, Your mouth seems to speak faster than your brain. Have your 28 yr old son pass the ARE then and only then say he knows more than a licensed architect. Your opinion is at best a hastily generalization with no merit. Dear Jake, Having a 4 year degree in Business and then a 5 year Bachelor of Architecture degree would be pretty commendable. It seems mandatory that either a Bachelor of Arch degree or a Masters of Arch is primary to pursue a career in architecture (CA perspective). Education combined with experience is what the Licensing and Intern Development Program (IDP) is all about. Good luck ------------------------------------------- John Linnert AIA Principal John W. Linnert, AIA, Architecture Costa Mesa CA -------------------------------------------
Original Message: Sent: 07-10-2014 18:03 From: John Stewart Subject: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student I'd say skip school and go to work full time if you can. I graduated with a Master's at 31 because I had to work to pay for it as I went to school. My son is 28 and has worked for me for three years with no architectural schooling. He knows as much s a licensed architect! Think school is over rated. Only my opinion.  ------------------------------------------- John Stewart AIA Stewart Associates Architects San Carlos CA -------------------------------------------

Having worked at firms of varying sizes and focuses I would have to say that most firms don't know the difference between a BArch and an MArch.  That said, most firms only care that you have pursued a professional degree which will allow you to sit for the AREs and become a licensed architect.

If your focus is to become and Architect/Artist and work for a firm that specializes in parametric modeling and designing art installations or "paper architecture" than a post professional Masters might be a bonus, but you could still accomplish this with a BArch/MArch.

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Spencer Lepler AIA
LeMay Erickson Willcox Architects
Centreville VA
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Original Message:
Sent: 07-10-2014 18:03
From: John Stewart
Subject: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student

I'd say skip school and go to work full time if you can. I graduated with a Master's at 31 because I had to work to pay for it as I went to school. My son is 28 and has worked for me for three years with no architectural schooling. He knows as much s a licensed architect! Think school is over rated. Only my opinion. 

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John Stewart AIA
Stewart Associates Architects
San Carlos CA
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Jake,
I've been in your shoes. I graduated with a BS in agriculture then realized I wanted to be an architect. I found a program that offered an accredited M Arch degree for people who did NOT have a B Arch. I've been out of school 8 years and many job postings I look at will say MArch preferred, but few, if any, say MArch required.

I went to school with a woman who also had a degree outside of architecture and she made the decision to get a whole other BArch degree.

I don't think either path is wrong, but I don't do the hiring at firms! If I had to get two degrees, I preferred having the MArch because it made me feel that I was moving forward in my education rather than just sideways.

Personally, I think having a business degree combined with the architecture degree will be what gives you the advantage when it comes to finding a job. Not whether you have the BArch vs. the MArch. My guess is there's a tuition difference between the two programs. I'd evaluate your personal circumstances and the cost of each program, then factor in if you have strong feelings about a MArch degree or not, that will help you decide. Perhaps you could offer your business skills to an architecture firm while going to school. It might just be another way to get a good internship.

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Brenda Nelson Assoc. AIA
Ankeny IA
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Original Message:
Sent: 07-11-2014 12:48
From: Spencer Lepler
Subject: ? for HR in Architecture Co's. From graduating UW Student

Having worked at firms of varying sizes and focuses I would have to say that most firms don't know the difference between a BArch and an MArch.  That said, most firms only care that you have pursued a professional degree which will allow you to sit for the AREs and become a licensed architect.

If your focus is to become and Architect/Artist and work for a firm that specializes in parametric modeling and designing art installations or "paper architecture" than a post professional Masters might be a bonus, but you could still accomplish this with a BArch/MArch.

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Spencer Lepler AIA
LeMay Erickson Willcox Architects
Centreville VA
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Jake, 

If you have (or by December will have) completed a Bachelor's degree you might consider finding an architecture school with a "second-career" program for students such as yourself.  UT-Arlington (in the Dallas/Ft Worth area) is one such school, and was where I earned my Master of Architecture degree.  Their "Path-A" program is for us second-career pursuers and the program acknowledges you've already earned a Bachelor's and taken all the basic coursework required by the state or college in question.

As you say you'll go for a Bachelor's of Architecture at UNLV you seem to indicate you will repeat all 5 years - all the history, English, whatever courses.  If you are set on becoming an Architect you could cut out several years' of study.  The program I went through is a NAAB-accredited course and took under 3 years to complete.  Following graduation and IDP I was able to become a registered architect, and in much less time than you appear to be gearing up for.

On the internship front my recommendation is find the right school and start taking classes - as many as you can handle each semester, and skip and internship at first.  Once you have some design coursework under your belt you should be a stronger internship candidate than you are with just a Bachelor's in Business.  I've got nearly the same B.S. in Business Admin as you will have and I felt focusing on design study work before an internship was very beneficial.

Good luck-

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Daniel Eckelkamp AIA
Owner/Architect
Fifth Dimension Design
Dallas TX
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