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Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

  • 1.  Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 06-23-2016 09:43 AM

    Hello –

     

    Looking for a few ideas for replacement alternatives for a 1920s era copper tile roof system.  Original tiles are about 16" long, 12" wide, with a district profile.  They are Mediterranean Style with a an alternating barrel and flat texture to them (as opposed to a Spanish Tile that does not have the interstitial flat section.)

     

    Client would like to review all options for replacement – wondering what else is out there.  I'm finding metal sheet roofs with a Spanish Tile feel, but the scale is off and these products do not replicate the barrel-flat pattern of the originals.  I'm considering a custom stamped sheet but that will likely be as expensive as the copper.

     

    Has anyone addressed this before?

     

    Thanks,

    Meg Kindelin

    Chicago

     

    Meg Kindelin, AIA

    Principal  |  mkindelin@jlkarch.com

     

    Woman Owned Small Business

    WBE/FBE/DBE

     

    JLK_HorizLogo_300dpi_2c_423_122

     

    230 West Huron, Suite 510  |  Chicago, Illinois 60654

    office 312-357-1221 ext. 208  |  cell 773-729-0153

    www.jlkarch.com

     

     

     

    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 2.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 06-27-2016 07:27 PM

    Marquerite - What is the goal for looking at alternatives?  Is it price only or is it performance?  To get the scale and profile correct I think you'd need to look at tile (or an imitation tile) that is finished to look like copper.  That may not save much money and it may not last as long as the real thing. 

    ------------------------------
    Julia Manglitz AIA
    Associate Principal
    Treanor Architects
    Kansas City, MO

    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 3.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 06-28-2016 05:49 PM

    AT 77, in private practice for more than 50 years, dealing with such issues as established here, I offer the following.  With new technologies, various materials, etc., etc., I have found nothing that replicates the original Copper, Clay tiles.  There has been nothing formulated to provide the look of natural petina found on these old tiles.  Thirty or fourty years ago, there was no answer.  However, with the "market" begging for these old tiles, and our getting the word out to the demolition people, that there is a market for these tiles, they had been transfering to the landfills.  We lost many tiles, but slowly, as the word got out, these old tiles being removed from homes, buildings, etc., were finding their way to "resale" locations.  With the ever growing need for these old tiles, they are getting hard to find.  And, when the old original tiles are gone, there will not be a product to replicate these roofs.  Unless new technology provides a means to duplicate the "old patina"???

    jrw

    ------------------------------
    James Wooten FAIA
    Owner
    James R. Wooten Associates
    Fort Worth TX

    Original Message
    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 4.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 06-29-2016 06:11 PM

    Marquerite,

    You could look at Absolute Steel's Villa Tile Coated Steel Shingles as an option. I do not know how close the profile is but they have a few color options that look somewhat weathered. I am going to guess that they are an expensive option.

    Villa Tile Stone Coated Steel Shingles

    Metalroofingsource remove preview
    Villa Tile Stone Coated Steel Shingles
    Metal tile roofing system available in stone coated steel. Absolute Steel offers seamless nationwide delivery.
    View this on Metalroofingsource >

    Hope it helps,

    ------------------------------
    Gene Greene Assoc. AIA
    Historic Preservation Specialist/Project Designer
    Ekman Design Studio, Inc.
    Littleton CO

    Original Message
    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 5.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 07-01-2016 12:18 AM
    Marguerite & All ---
    Hello
     
    Would this "combo" approach be feasible?...  It's based on finding / matching / replicating the original copper tiles with a "question-mark" profile (curve + straight leg, for simplified description).  It sounds like the effort needed to fake-up a copy could be expensive, so much so that maybe, just maybe, you could go for the real thing! 
    How 'bout: 
    1.     Find old tiles:
    For a once-manufactured product, where are these tiles:
    a.            On old buildings nearby? 
    b.            In salvage yards?
    c.            In "lost stock" someplace (you'd be amazed...)? 
    d.            When were these made, in relationship to one of the "war-time needs"?
    2.     Make new tiles:
    a.            Work w/ small, local job-shops.
    b.            Involve the vocational schools.
    c.            Develop a (local, for starters) market?
    d.            Should be a "green" material, for natural material + long life.
    e.            Any options for simplifying the profile a tad?
    3.     For your job, maybe:
    a.            Strip all.
    b.            Use the good ones in front.
    c.            Plain roof in back (3-tab asph./f.g. shingles).
    d.            Or, if success w/ "found" or new-made; old in back, new in front.
    e.            Or, new on "weather-side/s" old elsewhere. 
     
    Over my decades of "Architekkin' ", I have indeed seen instances where so much effort went into developing "work-arounds", that a frontal approach with the real thing turned out being cheaper! 
     
    Just thinkin'...
     
    Bill Devlin
    william j. devlin aia, inc.,
    ARCHITECT
    Springfield, MA


    ------Original Message------

    Marquerite,

    You could look at Absolute Steel's Villa Tile Coated Steel Shingles as an option. I do not know how close the profile is but they have a few color options that look somewhat weathered. I am going to guess that they are an expensive option.

    Villa Tile Stone Coated Steel Shingles

    Metalroofingsource remove preview
    Villa Tile Stone Coated Steel Shingles
    Metal tile roofing system available in stone coated steel. Absolute Steel offers seamless nationwide delivery.
    View this on Metalroofingsource >

    Hope it helps,

    ------------------------------
    Gene Greene Assoc. AIA
    Historic Preservation Specialist/Project Designer
    Ekman Design Studio, Inc.
    Littleton CO
    ------------------------------
    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 6.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 07-04-2016 08:11 PM

    Have you tried WF Norman Inc?



    ------Original Message------

    Marguerite & All ---
    Hello
     
    Would this "combo" approach be feasible?...  It's based on finding / matching / replicating the original copper tiles with a "question-mark" profile (curve + straight leg, for simplified description).  It sounds like the effort needed to fake-up a copy could be expensive, so much so that maybe, just maybe, you could go for the real thing! 
    How 'bout: 
    1.     Find old tiles:
    For a once-manufactured product, where are these tiles:
    a.            On old buildings nearby? 
    b.            In salvage yards?
    c.            In "lost stock" someplace (you'd be amazed...)? 
    d.            When were these made, in relationship to one of the "war-time needs"?
    2.     Make new tiles:
    a.            Work w/ small, local job-shops.
    b.            Involve the vocational schools.
    c.            Develop a (local, for starters) market?
    d.            Should be a "green" material, for natural material + long life.
    e.            Any options for simplifying the profile a tad?
    3.     For your job, maybe:
    a.            Strip all.
    b.            Use the good ones in front.
    c.            Plain roof in back (3-tab asph./f.g. shingles).
    d.            Or, if success w/ "found" or new-made; old in back, new in front.
    e.            Or, new on "weather-side/s" old elsewhere. 
     
    Over my decades of "Architekkin' ", I have indeed seen instances where so much effort went into developing "work-arounds", that a frontal approach with the real thing turned out being cheaper! 
     
    Just thinkin'...
     
    Bill Devlin
    william j. devlin aia, inc.,
    ARCHITECT
    Springfield, MA


    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 7.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 07-06-2016 01:07 AM
    Marguerite & All ---
    Hello again
     
    After reviewing the many ideas in the posts on this intriguing project, I've had a few additional thoughts:
    1.     Patina:
    Rather than try to "patinate" a new copper roof, to look "aged", I'd suggest the straight-forward approach.  Let the new roof brag a bit!  After all, when the building was shiny-&-new, its roof was, shiny-&-new!  Hopefully the Owner would see the sense of that (and the bragging props that come with it)...
    2.     Cost:
    My guess would be, letting the copper be straight-up new, should cost less than doctoring-it-up to look like it's been there "forever".
    Unless...
    3.     Security:
    If the roof is accessible to vandals / thieves, maybe you'd go all the way to a fake material (plastic in the pale-green of aged copper).  A patina-job isn't going to fool 'em.  It's a damned shame to have to think this way, these days.
     
    Best of luck with your project.
     
    Thanks ---
    Bill Devlin
    william j. devlin aia, inc.,
    Springfield, MA


    ------Original Message------

    Have you tried WF Norman Inc?



    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 8.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 07-08-2016 10:26 AM

    I agree with the comment to encourage the newness of the material to fade away.

     

     

    Randy Clark AIA

     

    clark architecture & design

    902  east first street                     mcpherson kansas  

    o  620.241.4353                                 c  620.245.7773

    w  w  w  .  c  l  a  r  k  a r c h I t e c t u r e  .  c  o  m

    Find us on FB

     



    ------Original Message------

    Marguerite & All ---
    Hello again
     
    After reviewing the many ideas in the posts on this intriguing project, I've had a few additional thoughts:
    1.     Patina:
    Rather than try to "patinate" a new copper roof, to look "aged", I'd suggest the straight-forward approach.  Let the new roof brag a bit!  After all, when the building was shiny-&-new, its roof was, shiny-&-new!  Hopefully the Owner would see the sense of that (and the bragging props that come with it)...
    2.     Cost:
    My guess would be, letting the copper be straight-up new, should cost less than doctoring-it-up to look like it's been there "forever".
    Unless...
    3.     Security:
    If the roof is accessible to vandals / thieves, maybe you'd go all the way to a fake material (plastic in the pale-green of aged copper).  A patina-job isn't going to fool 'em.  It's a damned shame to have to think this way, these days.
     
    Best of luck with your project.
     
    Thanks ---
    Bill Devlin
    william j. devlin aia, inc.,
    Springfield, MA


    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 9.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 07-12-2016 04:51 PM

    Hello,

     

    I appreciate all your comments.  I believe I have found a local roofing contractor to facilitate the historic look with a custom approach by replicating the historic size, details, and pattern in light gauge steel.  I've seen a mock-up of the proposed solution and I think it might be suitable.

    I'll keep this group posted as this develops.  I really am thankful for your input.

     

    Meg 

     

    Meg Kindelin, AIA

    Principal  |  mkindelin@jlkarch.com

     

    Woman Owned Small Business

    WBE/FBE/DBE

     

    JLK_HorizLogo_300dpi_2c_423_122

     

    230 West Huron, Suite 510  |  Chicago, Illinois 60654

    office 312-357-1221 ext. 208  |  cell 773-729-0153

    www.jlkarch.com

     

     

     



    ------Original Message------

    I agree with the comment to encourage the newness of the material to fade away.

     

     

    Randy Clark AIA

     

    clark architecture & design

    902  east first street                     mcpherson kansas  

    o  620.241.4353                                 c  620.245.7773

    w  w  w  .  c  l  a  r  k  a r c h I t e c t u r e  .  c  o  m

    Find us on FB

     



    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 10.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 07-06-2016 10:04 AM

    If you could give the date or age of the roof system, it might help. You mention copper, but I would suggest the tiles are galvanized steel with a copper, or copper-like, coating.  If you haven't already, have one piece removed for analysis. I would suggest you focus on the appearance, not replicating the materials.

    ------------------------------
    Baird Smith FAIA
    Architect
    Design Communications
    Alexandria VA

    Original Message
    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 11.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 07-01-2016 12:28 PM
    Another company that manufactures what they call 'stone coated steel' is  Decra. 
     

    ​We looked into this as an alternative for one of my projects, though ultimately a different material was chosen so I have no further knowledge about the product. 

    Best wishes on your project! 

    --
    Deborah Marcella Rehn, AIA, PMP
    Regional Project Manager / COR

    SER Facility Support Division 
    100 Alabama Street, S.W.
    Atlanta, Georgia 30303   USA

    PHONE:   404-507-5716
    Cell:  404-889-9148

    "I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that."

    Pippi Longstocking  

    This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed.  It may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise protected by applicable law.  If you are not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or use of this e-mail or its contents is strictly prohibited.  If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies.



    ------Original Message------

    Marquerite,

    You could look at Absolute Steel's Villa Tile Coated Steel Shingles as an option. I do not know how close the profile is but they have a few color options that look somewhat weathered. I am going to guess that they are an expensive option.

    Villa Tile Stone Coated Steel Shingles

    Metalroofingsource remove preview
    Villa Tile Stone Coated Steel Shingles
    Metal tile roofing system available in stone coated steel. Absolute Steel offers seamless nationwide delivery.
    View this on Metalroofingsource >

    Hope it helps,

    ------------------------------
    Gene Greene Assoc. AIA
    Historic Preservation Specialist/Project Designer
    Ekman Design Studio, Inc.
    Littleton CO
    ------------------------------
    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 12.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 07-01-2016 12:35 PM
    I agree, changing materials is not a "Preservation" treatment, and is undesirable for a number of reasons. 

    Unfortunately we are too often at the mercy of the changing times and industries as to what is available.  It is one of the ongoing challenges of historic preservation. 
     

    --
    Deborah Marcella Rehn, AIA, PMP
    Regional Project Manager / COR

    SER Facility Support Division 
    100 Alabama Street, S.W.
    Atlanta, Georgia 30303   USA

    PHONE:   404-507-5716
    Cell:  404-889-9148

    "I have never tried that before, so I think I should definitely be able to do that."

    Pippi Longstocking  

    This e-mail (including any attachments) is intended for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed.  It may contain information that is privileged, confidential, or otherwise protected by applicable law.  If you are not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible for delivery of this e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or use of this e-mail or its contents is strictly prohibited.  If you received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy all copies.



    ------Original Message------

    AT 77, in private practice for more than 50 years, dealing with such issues as established here, I offer the following.  With new technologies, various materials, etc., etc., I have found nothing that replicates the original Copper, Clay tiles.  There has been nothing formulated to provide the look of natural petina found on these old tiles.  Thirty or fourty years ago, there was no answer.  However, with the "market" begging for these old tiles, and our getting the word out to the demolition people, that there is a market for these tiles, they had been transfering to the landfills.  We lost many tiles, but slowly, as the word got out, these old tiles being removed from homes, buildings, etc., were finding their way to "resale" locations.  With the ever growing need for these old tiles, they are getting hard to find.  And, when the old original tiles are gone, there will not be a product to replicate these roofs.  Unless new technology provides a means to duplicate the "old patina"???

    jrw

    ------------------------------
    James Wooten FAIA
    Owner
    James R. Wooten Associates
    Fort Worth TX
    ------------------------------
    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 13.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 06-30-2016 06:56 PM

    Marquerite,

    What I’ve found what best replicates what you’ve described is The Copper Mediterranean Tile from Future Roof Roofing Systems (https://futureroof.com/copper-roof), unfortunately on their website they don’t have any information about the profiles w x d x h, but I’m sure one of their people could get you that information. You indicated that you hadn’t been able to find any thing that replicated the  barrel-flat pattern of the originals, but hopefully this is close to what you need.

     

    ------------------------------
    Latecia Herzog AIA
    Architect, Owner
    JHS Architects
    Pocatello ID

    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 14.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 07-03-2016 09:18 AM

    I would contact wfnorman.com.  They may be able to custom replicate the roof tile within your budget.

    Regards,

    Doug Lister

    ------------------------------
    Douglas Lister AIA
    Principal
    Douglas J. Lister, Architect
    New York NY

    Original Message
    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 15.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 07-07-2016 05:52 PM

    If you're attempting to determine if the original shingles are pure copper meeting ASTM B370, use a magnet.  If the material is copper the magnet will not attach.  All copper and copper alloys are non-magnetic. Also note that copper would never be used over galvanized steel for an exterior application because of the galvanic corrosion potential. I recommend that you contact the Copper Development Association, (404) 229-6374 and speak with Larry Peters regarding technical issues along with possible sources for new shingles. Note that copper can be field patinated but insure you use an experienced applicator.  

    ------------------------------
    H. Seale AIA
    Principal
    HWS Consulting
    Renton WA

    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13


  • 16.  RE: Mediterranean Copper Roof Tile - Alternatives?

    Posted 07-14-2016 10:01 AM

    Thank you Mr. Seale for the hint to use a magnet.  But to the original question, Meg, how did you establish the roof was copper?  Does the roof exist now, or was this from documentation?   What age and where is this located?   From my experience, I would think it was a bronze coating, with a copper color.   Please let us know.

    ------------------------------
    Baird Smith FAIA, FAPT
    Architect
    Design Communications
    Alexandria VA

    Original Message
    AIA26 San Diego June 10-13