Historic Resources Committee

The county building department is requiring us to reverse the historic entry doors to swing out in the direction of egress from the nave of a historic church now re-purposed as a cultural center.  The total design occupant load is 105 for an assembly occupancy so while I agree IBC requires egress doors to swing in the direction of travel, I was wondering if anyone had an argument I could use to retain the original door swings.

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Peter Dube AIA
Principal
Dube Group Architecture
Reno NV
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I've reversed them in historic courthouses. It's the right thing to do. Human life and safety is more important than a historic door swing. There are no good arguments against it that I know of. Our most stringent historic officers here are the first to acknowledge the necessity.

The only time I didn't, was when the original doors were a pair of 24" doors that couldn't be made to meet code. We left them, but held them open and installed full frameless glass doors as the egress doors. The historic doors could be closed when needed for photographs and the glass doors melted away. Everyone was pleased with the results.

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Pamela Leonard AIA
Architect
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-21-2013 17:30
From: Peter Dube
Subject: Egress Door Swings

The county building department is requiring us to reverse the historic entry doors to swing out in the direction of egress from the nave of a historic church now re-purposed as a cultural center.  The total design occupant load is 105 for an assembly occupancy so while I agree IBC requires egress doors to swing in the direction of travel, I was wondering if anyone had an argument I could use to retain the original door swings.

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Peter Dube AIA
Principal
Dube Group Architecture
Reno NV
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I had one similar instance in a small town in Avella, PA. It was a bank building with a 5' wide set of front doors - one swung in and one swung out originally and we wanted to keep it that way. Luckily in our case, we added a true 3' wide door for ADA access on the side that also doubled as a general egress location. We were able to meet the requirement that way. Doesn't sound like you have that option.

If the building is sprinklered, perhaps you can appeal it on that count. Or even add a few heads in critical rooms off the domestic water system. Sometimes that counts towards allowing unusual conditions here.
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Christina Schessler AIA
McKinley & Associates, Inc.
Wheeling WV
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-22-2013 17:29
From: Pamela Leonard
Subject: Egress Door Swings

I've reversed them in historic courthouses. It's the right thing to do. Human life and safety is more important than a historic door swing. There are no good arguments against it that I know of. Our most stringent historic officers here are the first to acknowledge the necessity.

The only time I didn't, was when the original doors were a pair of 24" doors that couldn't be made to meet code. We left them, but held them open and installed full frameless glass doors as the egress doors. The historic doors could be closed when needed for photographs and the glass doors melted away. Everyone was pleased with the results.

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Pamela Leonard AIA
Architect
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-21-2013 17:30
From: Peter Dube
Subject: Egress Door Swings

The county building department is requiring us to reverse the historic entry doors to swing out in the direction of egress from the nave of a historic church now re-purposed as a cultural center.  The total design occupant load is 105 for an assembly occupancy so while I agree IBC requires egress doors to swing in the direction of travel, I was wondering if anyone had an argument I could use to retain the original door swings.

-------------------------------------------
Peter Dube AIA
Principal
Dube Group Architecture
Reno NV
-------------------------------------------

We were faced with this same challenge on a restoration of a historic country club a few years ago. In addition to in-swinging doors, we reconstructed an open, wooden grand stair that was the only stair from the 2nd floor.  A sprinkler system and a sensitive air-sampling fire detection system were installed.  The local building code official was still not comfortable with a grand stair and in-swinging doors, so after some discussion of how the building would be used (mostly members and guests with low occupancy and occasional larger events with more than 50 people), so for any special events held at the country club, an off-duty fireman was to be stationed at the main entrance to ensure the doors would be held open to facilitate egress.  We felt this was a good compromise and allowed the large historic doors (4' wide by 11' tall) to remain as they were historically.  

A cultural center may have more consistent occupancy, so hiring an off-duty firefighter may not be economically feasible except for events, but the other suggestions of either altering the details to conform to out-swinging doors (with coordinating hardware if each leaf is less than 36"/32" clear in the open position) or adding other life-safety features might be enough.  

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Jack Alvarez AIA
Partner
Landmark Consulting, LLC
Albany NY
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-22-2013 17:29
From: Pamela Leonard
Subject: Egress Door Swings

I've reversed them in historic courthouses. It's the right thing to do. Human life and safety is more important than a historic door swing. There are no good arguments against it that I know of. Our most stringent historic officers here are the first to acknowledge the necessity.

The only time I didn't, was when the original doors were a pair of 24" doors that couldn't be made to meet code. We left them, but held them open and installed full frameless glass doors as the egress doors. The historic doors could be closed when needed for photographs and the glass doors melted away. Everyone was pleased with the results.

-------------------------------------------
Pamela Leonard AIA
Architect
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-21-2013 17:30
From: Peter Dube
Subject: Egress Door Swings

The county building department is requiring us to reverse the historic entry doors to swing out in the direction of egress from the nave of a historic church now re-purposed as a cultural center.  The total design occupant load is 105 for an assembly occupancy so while I agree IBC requires egress doors to swing in the direction of travel, I was wondering if anyone had an argument I could use to retain the original door swings.

-------------------------------------------
Peter Dube AIA
Principal
Dube Group Architecture
Reno NV
-------------------------------------------

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Ronald Wendle AIA
Architect
Wells and Company
Spokane WA
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Assuming the doors in their configuration are historically significant, then the building official may give latitude under Chapter 12 of the IEBC.  This is at the official's discretion however.  The degree of significance and mitigating measures described in this blog are important, and should be incorporated in a written report complying with IEBC 1201.2. 



Original Message:
Sent: 08-23-2013 23:42
From: John Alvarez
Subject: Egress Door Swings

We were faced with this same challenge on a restoration of a historic country club a few years ago. In addition to in-swinging doors, we reconstructed an open, wooden grand stair that was the only stair from the 2nd floor.  A sprinkler system and a sensitive air-sampling fire detection system were installed.  The local building code official was still not comfortable with a grand stair and in-swinging doors, so after some discussion of how the building would be used (mostly members and guests with low occupancy and occasional larger events with more than 50 people), so for any special events held at the country club, an off-duty fireman was to be stationed at the main entrance to ensure the doors would be held open to facilitate egress.  We felt this was a good compromise and allowed the large historic doors (4' wide by 11' tall) to remain as they were historically.  

A cultural center may have more consistent occupancy, so hiring an off-duty firefighter may not be economically feasible except for events, but the other suggestions of either altering the details to conform to out-swinging doors (with coordinating hardware if each leaf is less than 36"/32" clear in the open position) or adding other life-safety features might be enough.  

-------------------------------------------
Jack Alvarez AIA
Partner
Landmark Consulting, LLC
Albany NY
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-22-2013 17:29
From: Pamela Leonard
Subject: Egress Door Swings

I've reversed them in historic courthouses. It's the right thing to do. Human life and safety is more important than a historic door swing. There are no good arguments against it that I know of. Our most stringent historic officers here are the first to acknowledge the necessity.

The only time I didn't, was when the original doors were a pair of 24" doors that couldn't be made to meet code. We left them, but held them open and installed full frameless glass doors as the egress doors. The historic doors could be closed when needed for photographs and the glass doors melted away. Everyone was pleased with the results.

-------------------------------------------
Pamela Leonard AIA
Architect
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 08-21-2013 17:30
From: Peter Dube
Subject: Egress Door Swings

The county building department is requiring us to reverse the historic entry doors to swing out in the direction of egress from the nave of a historic church now re-purposed as a cultural center.  The total design occupant load is 105 for an assembly occupancy so while I agree IBC requires egress doors to swing in the direction of travel, I was wondering if anyone had an argument I could use to retain the original door swings.

-------------------------------------------
Peter Dube AIA
Principal
Dube Group Architecture
Reno NV
-------------------------------------------

Of there is no Change of Occupancy (i.e. was A-3 and will stay A-3) usually the condition would be grandfathered under the  International Existing Building Code (which they may or may not have adopted). Many code officials will accept an IEBC reference as a basis for appeal even if they have not formally adopted it. The chapter on Change of Occupancy (Ch. 9) sets out the conditions under which an upgrade to exits are required, based on an increase in hazard. No change in occupancy, no change in hazard, and existing conditions can remain as they are.

If the condition is considered by the code official to be more hazardous than the original, then IEBC 1105.7 for change of occupancy in historic buildings could help. It reads "When approved by the code official, existing front doors need not swing in the direction of exit travel, provided that other approved exits having sufficient capacity to serve the total occupant load are provided."

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Robert Graham AIA
Motley Design Group LLC
Phoenix AZ
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-21-2013 17:30
From: Peter Dube
Subject: Egress Door Swings

The county building department is requiring us to reverse the historic entry doors to swing out in the direction of egress from the nave of a historic church now re-purposed as a cultural center.  The total design occupant load is 105 for an assembly occupancy so while I agree IBC requires egress doors to swing in the direction of travel, I was wondering if anyone had an argument I could use to retain the original door swings.

-------------------------------------------
Peter Dube AIA
Principal
Dube Group Architecture
Reno NV
-------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------- Sherman Aronson AIA BLT Architects Philadelphia PA ------------------------------------------- Do not know of an argument, and we had to something similar for an historic storefront in Philadelphia. Only real option is to provide another door that swings out, as an egress. We also had to provide an accessible ramp with railings to navigate up about 8" to the door from the sidewalk.
Original Message: Sent: 08-21-2013 17:30 From: Peter Dube Subject: Egress Door Swings The county building department is requiring us to reverse the historic entry doors to swing out in the direction of egress from the nave of a historic church now re-purposed as a cultural center. The total design occupant load is 105 for an assembly occupancy so while I agree IBC requires egress doors to swing in the direction of travel, I was wondering if anyone had an argument I could use to retain the original door swings. ------------------------------------------- Peter Dube AIA Principal Dube Group Architecture Reno NV -------------------------------------------

In the historic courthouse, at the pair of 24" doors that couldn't be made to meet code, we held them open and used an "All Glass" entrance door system manufactured by C.R. Laurence Co. secured to a CRL wedge-lock door rail system. It was fully tempered. Looked great. If you want to see a photo of it installed, just email me and I'd be happy to send a photo. The state Archives and History people, the city historic groups, Owner, etc. were very pleased with how it turned out.
Pamela

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Pamela Leonard AIA
Architect
Canizaro Cawthon Davis
Jackson MS
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-21-2013 17:30
From: Peter Dube
Subject: Egress Door Swings

The county building department is requiring us to reverse the historic entry doors to swing out in the direction of egress from the nave of a historic church now re-purposed as a cultural center.  The total design occupant load is 105 for an assembly occupancy so while I agree IBC requires egress doors to swing in the direction of travel, I was wondering if anyone had an argument I could use to retain the original door swings.

-------------------------------------------
Peter Dube AIA
Principal
Dube Group Architecture
Reno NV
-------------------------------------------

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Royce LaNier AIA
Principal
Royce LaNier, AIA
Toronto ON
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The only solution that might be acceptable under the building code is to treat the original exterior doors as 'security doors' that are kept open at all times when the building is in use and are closed and locked only when the building is not in use (or you could even disable the swing so that they are permanently open).  This would mean creating an interior versibule with new 'egress doors' that do swing out.  Obviously, I don't know if you have the space to make that feasible but the vestibule would only need to be the depth of the exist door swing.  If that isn't feasible, you might try satisfying the fire code requirements by specifying automatic door openers that are tied to the fire alarm system and open automatically in case of an emergency.  The fire department would probably accept that but technically it still wouldn't meet the building code.





Original Message:
Sent: 08-21-2013 17:30
From: Peter Dube
Subject: Egress Door Swings

The county building department is requiring us to reverse the historic entry doors to swing out in the direction of egress from the nave of a historic church now re-purposed as a cultural center.  The total design occupant load is 105 for an assembly occupancy so while I agree IBC requires egress doors to swing in the direction of travel, I was wondering if anyone had an argument I could use to retain the original door swings.

-------------------------------------------
Peter Dube AIA
Principal
Dube Group Architecture
Reno NV
-------------------------------------------

Peter,

I don't mean to sound cold, but an argument that wins at a building department doesn't necessarily hold up in court anyway. (I hope you're never there.) I've had the same design issue, and in this case an arched masonry top in front of the tall rectangular doors prevented the doors from swinging out regardless. The solution (which is only preliminary now as it's being moved to next year's budget) is lower breakaway panels in new doors that are nearly identical to the originals when closed. For ceremonial purposes the full doors (11 ft. high) swing in like the originals.

To be successful, you need to take full control of the design drawings and the hardware specifying. Do them like a woodworker. Do them like an industrial designer. Don't leave it to the shop drawing process.

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Joseph Catalano AIA
Joseph Catalano AIA
Sierra Madre CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-21-2013 17:30
From: Peter Dube
Subject: Egress Door Swings

The county building department is requiring us to reverse the historic entry doors to swing out in the direction of egress from the nave of a historic church now re-purposed as a cultural center.  The total design occupant load is 105 for an assembly occupancy so while I agree IBC requires egress doors to swing in the direction of travel, I was wondering if anyone had an argument I could use to retain the original door swings.

-------------------------------------------
Peter Dube AIA
Principal
Dube Group Architecture
Reno NV
-------------------------------------------

A few thoughts:
- Are these the only exit doors?  If there are fewer than 50 people exiting through a door, the door can swing in for most occupancies.  If there are other exit doors, and you can get the numbers down for this doorway, this might be a plausible argument.
- How busy is the assembly space? Meaning, how often is it occupied?  If the nave/assembly space is only occupied for a few hours a week for events, perhaps posting someone to act as a "fire marshal" for the duration of an event would be an acceptable alternative - in case of emergency, that person could open the doors and fix them open until everyone has exited. 
- How big a deal is it to reverse the swing?  Sometimes this just can't be done; other times, it's not as bad as one might have originally thought.   Always important to pick your battles.

Good luck - Kathy Dowdell
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Katherine Dowdell AIA
Blackney Hayes Architects
Philadelphia PA
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-21-2013 17:30
From: Peter Dube
Subject: Egress Door Swings

The county building department is requiring us to reverse the historic entry doors to swing out in the direction of egress from the nave of a historic church now re-purposed as a cultural center.  The total design occupant load is 105 for an assembly occupancy so while I agree IBC requires egress doors to swing in the direction of travel, I was wondering if anyone had an argument I could use to retain the original door swings.

-------------------------------------------
Peter Dube AIA
Principal
Dube Group Architecture
Reno NV
-------------------------------------------

There is language dealing with this specific issue under the "fire safety" section of the "historic buildings" chapter of the International Existing Buildings Code, which should be an adopted code ancillary to the IBC in your jurisdiction.  This should really be the primary code that is being looked at for a smaller adaptive reuse project like yours.  It is possible that your code official doesn't use this often enough to be highly familiar with the nuances that are written here. 

Your Code Official has considerable discretion in the context of the existing conditions in historic buildings so long as the intent of life safety is met and exceeded through reasonable means.  If you can get into a cooperative dialogue with them you may be able to find an agreeable place to land.

Is the building fully alarm/detected?  Fire suppression?

Is the building National Register listed?  

Is the calculated occupant load realistic - will there really bee 100+ people there at times?

I am a preservation architect and also a longtime volunteer firefighter, so I am not one to try to skirt life safety requirements - ever....however the existing buildings code allows these sorts of requirement requirements to get murky and interpret-able by the code official so the specifics of a historic project can be viewed on their own particular merits.

Pete
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Peter Franks AIA
The Franks Design Group, P.C.
Glenwood IA
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-23-2013 10:37
From: Katherine Dowdell
Subject: Egress Door Swings

A few thoughts:
- Are these the only exit doors?  If there are fewer than 50 people exiting through a door, the door can swing in for most occupancies.  If there are other exit doors, and you can get the numbers down for this doorway, this might be a plausible argument.
- How busy is the assembly space? Meaning, how often is it occupied?  If the nave/assembly space is only occupied for a few hours a week for events, perhaps posting someone to act as a "fire marshal" for the duration of an event would be an acceptable alternative - in case of emergency, that person could open the doors and fix them open until everyone has exited. 
- How big a deal is it to reverse the swing?  Sometimes this just can't be done; other times, it's not as bad as one might have originally thought.   Always important to pick your battles.

Good luck - Kathy Dowdell
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Katherine Dowdell AIA
Blackney Hayes Architects
Philadelphia PA
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-21-2013 17:30
From: Peter Dube
Subject: Egress Door Swings

The county building department is requiring us to reverse the historic entry doors to swing out in the direction of egress from the nave of a historic church now re-purposed as a cultural center.  The total design occupant load is 105 for an assembly occupancy so while I agree IBC requires egress doors to swing in the direction of travel, I was wondering if anyone had an argument I could use to retain the original door swings.

-------------------------------------------
Peter Dube AIA
Principal
Dube Group Architecture
Reno NV
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