Historic Resources Committee

We are working on a historic multi-family building in Washington DC built in the late 20's.  The domestic water pipes are beginning to fail and the Board is considering a company that installs an epoxy lining as a solution other than complete pipe replacement.  Anyone have experience with this technology?

-------------------------------------------
Steven L Spurlock FAIA, LEED AP
Wnuk Spurlock Architecture
Washington DC
-------------------------------------------

The suggestion is to contact " This Old House " -
Who better to answer this question ?

-------------------------------------------
Nancy Harper AIA
Architect-Manager-Building Planner
Architectural Services
Scottsdale AZ
-------------------------------------------

You might contact Taliesin, apprentices or a local FLWright homeowner group. I've heard of a number of people discussing various methods in attempt to fix the in floor heating pipes without removing the concrete floor in FLWright homes. Perhaps they have some experience with the epoxy. 

-------------------------------------------
Andrew Fortna AIA
Architect
Maclachlan Cornelius & Filoni, Inc.
Pittsburgh PA
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 11-06-2012 11:08
From: Nancy Harper
Subject: Epoxy Lining in Domestic Water Pipes

The suggestion is to contact " This Old House " -
Who better to answer this question ?

-------------------------------------------
Nancy Harper AIA
Architect-Manager-Building Planner
Architectural Services
Scottsdale AZ
-------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------
Arlan Kay AIA
Architecture Network, Inc.
Madison WI
-------------------------------------------
This has all the hallmarks of a wonder cure that sounds like a great idea, but is deeply flawed.  Apply some simple physics to the proposed solution even if it works (for a while):
- An epoxy liner, any liner, will reduce the inside diameter of a pipe and reduce the potential volume of water the pipe can handle.
- Think of the application of an epoxy liner, a liquid is applied inside the pipe and no matter how viscous it will flow down hill before it sets.  It will be thicker on the bottom and thinner at the top.  How thick at the bottom of a vertical pipe in anyone's guess.
- How do they propose to do this?  How do they get into the pipes, all the pipes, all sizes of pipes and still find all the failing pipes, hidden and visible?
- Look at the inside of the pipe, there will be a build up of rust, and lime that has lined the pipes over time.  Some thin, some thick, but not the stuff of good structure to apply another layer of epoxy that wants to bond to steel (or copper).
- Now look at the pipes.  What is failing?  Small areas?  Similar failures to similar joints in many places?  Past remodeling and repairs not holding up?  Age?  
- If this is the original system, it is over three generations old.  Not bad service for a mechanical system. 
- Last, think of any future repairs to a system that is now glued together from the inside.  Check with a trusted plumbing contractor on what would be involved.  

My recommendation is to choose between replacing the plumbing in stages or the whole thing at once.  Do not go for a "cheaper" fix, which I speculate still has a hefty price tag, that may work for a while, then have performance and maintenance problems in the near future that will require total replacement.  

We all have worked on existing and historic buildings and have had to remove "wonder materials" that seemed like great ideas at the time, but were short lived and performed poorly.  




Original Message:
Sent: 11-06-2012 11:08
From: Nancy Harper
Subject: Epoxy Lining in Domestic Water Pipes

The suggestion is to contact " This Old House " -
Who better to answer this question ?

-------------------------------------------
Nancy Harper AIA
Architect-Manager-Building Planner
Architectural Services
Scottsdale AZ
-------------------------------------------

My home had its sanitary lined. The house was built in 1932, the sanitary is terre cotta. the process involves inserting a plastic sleeve into the line. On the outside of the sleeve there is a layered two-part epoxy system. The sleeve is inflated whereby the epoxy must mix. The plastic sleeve remains in the line. This will not correct settling obviously and appeared to work for some time until the sleeve started to delaminate leaving long strips of material in the line to slow things down. The video we had made is very compelling. I've had the line cleared of the sleeve material and now I'm waiting to see how long before the whole affair breaksdown. I would recommend the video because it will reveal the true condition of the line plus it makes a great holiday gift.


-------------------------------------------
Brion Sargent AIA
Dallas TX
-------------------------------------------







Original Message:
Sent: 11-06-2012 11:08
From: Nancy Harper
Subject: Epoxy Lining in Domestic Water Pipes

The suggestion is to contact " This Old House " -
Who better to answer this question ?

-------------------------------------------
Nancy Harper AIA
Architect-Manager-Building Planner
Architectural Services
Scottsdale AZ
-------------------------------------------

Yes. Epoxy lining can work if you will be left with sufficient inside pipe diameter. Worth a try, especially if pipes are in masonry or concrete shafts.

-------------------------------------------
Don Brubeck AIA
Associate
Bassetti Architects
Seattle WA
-------------------------------------------

If your building has original domestic water lines from the 1920's, they are like at the end of their useful life. If however they are generally sound, then they can be internally sealed with an epoxy lining like you mentioned. There are several companies out there, but the one I've dealt with is CuraFlo. About five years ago the domestic pipes were treated in a 135 unit apartment high-rise, and Management has reported the process to be quite successful at stoping pinhole leaks that plagued this 45 year old building. This process should be fine for either the copper or galvanized pipes you're likely to encounter in your DC project. 



-------------------------------------------
Scott Wilets AIA
Wiencek+Associates Architects+Planners
Bethesda MD
-------------------------------------------