Technology in Architectural Practice

 View Only

  • 1.  BIM and Cost Estimating

    Posted 03-20-2013 12:10 PM
    I'm curious to know what kind of successes (or failures) people are having using BIM to generate cost estimate reports. Can anyone speak to this? If so, please include the project type, size, and software used. Thanks.

    -------------------------------------------
    Robert Fink AIA
    Architect
    Quinn Evans Architects- DC
    Washington DC
    -------------------------------------------


  • 2.  RE:BIM and Cost Estimating

    Posted 03-21-2013 08:06 AM
    We have been using Revit to pull quantities of certain items but are still looking for a better program than Excel to complete our cost estimates.  What kind of cost estimating software has anyone found to work for basic cost estimating at each phase of a project?

    -------------------------------------------
    Jason Ross AIA
    Project Manager
    John Poe Architects
    Dayton OH
    -------------------------------------------








  • 3.  RE:BIM and Cost Estimating

    Posted 03-22-2013 06:35 PM
    2 issues here. 
    1.  Good estimating and takeoff software.
    2.  Should you really be doing this as an Architect?

    If EVERYTHING in your Revit model has been entered as part of the database (and you have no workarounds to get things looking the way you want them, without creating a proper "family" for them with all of their cost parameters), then Revit should give you a very good estimate of material quantities.

    Now then to the next issue: from time into the depths of history, through today, Architects have been getting themselves into huge trouble doing their own estimates.  If your contract demands that you have an estimate, either use a general contractor or a professional cost estimating company.  Unless you have a GC on staff that really knows costs.  Architects like me and you probably will make a few phone calls to try to nail down the big things and review a Means database (which can be way off) and think we have it nailed.  Then something we didn't know about, like the cost of the special cooling towers involved with the project just went through the roof and because we didn't have an HVAC contractor preparing that part of the estimate, we didn't know and we now have an estimate that is perhaps 20% or more off.  And we Architect will get blamed for our ignorance of costs.

    Solution: don't do estimates.  If you can, have your agreement exclude that service and have the client separately contract with the professional cost estimating company.  Let them be the ones to take it on the chin if they're wrong.  Architects design.  It is hard enough being good at one thing in our lifetimes.  Trying to do everything makes it hard to do any one of them well.  Do coordinate with outside estimators, which is wise, regardless of who is paying them and tailor your design accordingly, and assign several optional bid items as safety valves. 

    For what it's worth, my friend.

    -------------------------------------------
    Rand Soellner AIA
    Architect/Owner/Principal
    Home Architects
    Cashiers NC
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 4.  RE:BIM and Cost Estimating

    Posted 03-25-2013 06:37 PM
    Hi Guys, as Rand said, estimating is a risky business that can out weigh the cost charged to the client. If you are creating a scope of works with a cost estimate that is a very difficult task. I run a design and build business with 25 years experience and I have full time estimators that do use BIM to do quantities and cost analysis but it is not an exact science. Yes you can add prices in the Meta of the model but in reality the price that is quoted to the estimator would be far higher that the contractor on the ground who buys 300 units per month. Unless you are in contact with the contractor and have an agreement in place that keeps his price confidential to competitors I seriously doubt you will ever get a true price indication. 
    The biggest draw back using BIM is more that labour content of fitting the product and all of this comes down to accessibility of the item to be fitted and the schedule of the job. 
     I guess what I am trying to say is there is BIM and there is BIM. Personally I think sticking to a BOM  is a less risky task if you are not directly involved in the building coordination and costing. Revit and Archicad do this very well for general items. They do not go into the fine detail of construction.  For example on a residential house you would use 4 or 5 different wall systems. To my knowledge, Revit and Archicad will not tell you every length of timber in the construction as it would have to generate each item to give you a quantity. Revit and Archicad are "general" software applications that allow you to do a large percentage of residential and commercial work efficiently.  

    I think Rand has hit the nail on the head: Stay away from specifying costs and if you do you need to charge a higher % of the total job cost as you are now taking the position of the quantity surveyor, the estimator and the contractor. The risk is far greater than the return but if you do master the skill then you will make an absolute killing on the job and you will be the Architect most in demand. 
    I take my hat off to the Architects in America, you guys wear a lot more responsibility than Architects in Australia.  This is a generalisation as there are some fantastic Architects but a lot simply draw pretty pictures and leave it to the engineer and ultimately to the contractor to figure out the technical side of construction. The contractor is the one that wears the burden in Australia. In Australia you do not need to be a registered Architect to design in 95+% of  gross construction. 



    -------------------------------------------
    Andrew Dwight
    BIM manager
    RubySketch
    Sydney

    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message