Committee on Design

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Historic Resources Committee and Committee on Design .
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I am not sure how this works but here is a concern.  I live in a fourth tier, mid-sized, city where renovation in the central city has been catapulted by the opportunities provided by historic rehabilitation tax credits.  Here is my basic concern:

Because of the mass of structures (warehouses) being converted to housing, the goals of developers and the limitations of "appropriate design" as defined by the state and national rehabilitation tax credit reviewers, there is an excessive number of residential units this area which are being built and designed without windows or visual connection to the outdoors, except via light tubes and skylights.

I recently glanced at a warehouse renovation design being reviewed by the city which has approximately 144 units, 44 with windows, 100 without windows.

I'm curious.  Is this appalling to others?  Is this typical of the state of residential design in other urban areas of the country or just a local vernacular created by a small but predominant market group?   

I would appreciate the opportunity to read opinions of others.

Thanks
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David Johannas AIA
Johannas Design Group
Richmond VA
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I have never heard of apartments being built with no windows.  I would have thought it would violate even the most rudimentary habitation codes.   It is appalling and I can't imagine that it is legal!

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Robert Knight AIA
Knight Associates Inc.
Blue Hill ME
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Greg Burke, AIA
President
Gregory John Burke ' ARCHITECT, PA
Vero Beach, Florida
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All aspects of human habitation aside, in my part of the world, bedrooms are required by code to have a secondary means of egress supplementing the door that serves as the entrance to the bedroom.  That usually comes from a window.  It's been a long time since I have designed a project in Virginia.  I know thay have a building code.  None of the model codes is absent of the secondary means of egress from a bedroom requirement.  Even hotels are required to have the secondary means.  Codes states that any sleeping room must have a secondary means.  How are building officials allowing this type of design to be permitted?




Original Message:
Sent: 04-07-2011 09:14
From: Robert Knight
Subject: Housing design/renovation

I have never heard of apartments being built with no windows.  I would have thought it would violate even the most rudimentary habitation codes.   It is appalling and I can't imagine that it is legal!

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Robert Knight AIA
Knight Associates Inc.
Blue Hill ME
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David Johannas AIA
Johannas Design Group
Richmond VA
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This is intended as a general response to all who have communicated. Thanks for your thoughts.

Having read the responses, I am going to assess the reaction.  The group generally agrees with my concern that residential units designed within a a building interior, without visual connection to a light court or directly to the outside, is poor design, possibly bordering on reprehensible. 

I guess I can take my concerns to my local chapter and see if there is a local concensus.  If  so, then there may be an opportunity to take action. 

One would think that this level of design was almost non-existent; however, it is de rigueur in this region, and if you are not willing to work with the vernacular, it may have it's consequences.



Original Message:
Sent: 04-07-2011 09:14
From: Robert Knight
Subject: Housing design/renovation

I have never heard of apartments being built with no windows.  I would have thought it would violate even the most rudimentary habitation codes.   It is appalling and I can't imagine that it is legal!

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Robert Knight AIA
Knight Associates Inc.
Blue Hill ME
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James Klett AIA
Whitefish Bay WI
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I'm aware of that design solution which is getting more common with the reuse of warehouse type buildings. In most cases there's at least one wall that has windows to allow light and ventilation.  We have a local ordinance that requires that the bedrooms get a determined amount of borrowed light from the main living area.  I'm not aware of any units being allowed without windows.  The units usually are narrow but very deep because of the large building footprint. Also the floor sometimes steps up as you go back in the unit because the ceilings are typically high.   My opinion is these units would only be desirable or marketable for affordable housing or dorms.

How sad. There is never an excuse for intentional bad design whether it is due to the economic self-interest of the owner, well-intended but senseless regulations or lack of imagination on the part of the architect. It is true that interior courts can provide access to interior light and a "view". I stayed in Cordoba Spain in a hotel renovated from an historic building with rooms that face on a spacious, well designed interior hall with skylights. This was a reasonable interior space and no one was planning to be there longer than a few days but I admit it made me uncomfortable from a fire egress pov and I would not have stayed but for the relatively low price. The reception desk was by the window with a view to the street. Permanent living on a light tube brings to mind the spectre of an economic Soviet prison archipelago. Publish some photos.

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Ethan Anthony AIA
President
Cram and Ferguson Architects
Concord MA
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How can this be?  It is truely unnessary, would be illegal in Japan, and should be here.  As a society we should risist this kind of inhumane approach to design.  Any architect that does sometihing like this should be shunned by the other professionals in their community.  One thing will stop it though; economics - when people reject them - the message will be sent.  I have seen torpedo development and testing facilities in Copenhagen turned into very attractive and sustainable housing - so you can't tell me that the problem can't be solved without letting people connect with the outside world.


Richard

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Richard Robison AIA
Principal
Mithun, Inc.
Kirkland WA
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This is something I have never heard of as well.  Windows of a minimum size are required in bedrooms for egress at the very least.

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Ted Pratt AIA LEED AP
Principal/Founder
MTP Architects
San Francisco, CA

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This seems like a case where the UBC standards for light and ventilation are being mis-used as guidelines for livability.  In large mass buildings, every unit, and possibly every primary living space in each unit needs a "token view" into an interior courtyard with access to the sky.  Courtyards are not light wells.  They need to be 10% - 20% of the aggregated floor area of the units utilizing them. 

Yikes -
That does not sound like quality living to me, David. We have incentives to re-use industrial buildings here in California's Capital city, and they are partly driven by sustainable concerns. That translates to fresh air and views. Most of our 19th century and early 20th century buildings are not so large as to have the lopsided ratio of interior-to-exterior spaces that you are describing. At any rate, LEED rating - which is a pretty popular measure here - would not tolerate that kind of ratio.

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Peter Saucerman AIA
Dreyfuss & Blackford Architects
Sacramento CA
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