Committee on Design

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When you tell your client, "Although the slab doesn't meet the specifications for levelness, it is OK - we should accept the slab.", then there's a problem somewhere.

I am trying to get a handle on this "F" method for assessing the flatness and levelness of a slab. My structural engineer specified flatness of 25 overall and 20 local and the levelness at 17 overall and 13 local. I understand that this is not particularly stringent. The building does not require any special attention to flatness/levelness (F/L) as a response to its utilization and function. The specification did not address any monetary penalties as a remedy for failure to meet the specification, and the reality is that the failure to meet the levelness factor does not create any problem for the building use, nor the aesthetics of the building. The finished floor is to be sealed concrete, so any "repairs" would likely create a negative impact aesthetically.

How do you deal with this?
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Steven Cox AIA
President
Cox Architecture
Mccomb MS
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Check out the American Society of Concrete Contractors position papers.... maybe you have some leverage buried in your spec.  If not help here, maybe a great resource for future. Good luck!
http://www.ascconline.org/PositionStatements.aspx
http://www.ascconline.org/PositionStatements/PS6FloorFlatnessWebSC.pdf

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Megan Delevan AIA
Architect
BLT Architects
Philadelphia PA
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Of course the contractors position statement wants to dump the hassle of floor flatness back on the Architect so we get the grumbles about the cost to correct sloppy or damaged work.  Keep the flatness obligation on the guys who bid and installed it and need to protect it until its ready for floor application.  They will be motivated to do a better job. The contractor position statement recomendation for an owner funded allowance rewards them for poor workmanship IMHO.

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Daniel Seiser AIA
President
Bezek Durst Seiser Inc
Anchorage AK
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Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2013 17:37
From: Megan Delevan
Subject: Concrete Flatness / Levelness ASTM E 1122-87

Check out the American Society of Concrete Contractors position papers.... maybe you have some leverage buried in your spec.  If not help here, maybe a great resource for future. Good luck!
http://www.ascconline.org/PositionStatements.aspx
http://www.ascconline.org/PositionStatements/PS6FloorFlatnessWebSC.pdf

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Megan Delevan AIA
Architect
BLT Architects
Philadelphia PA
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I agree with Daniel. We all know who the ASCC represents.

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Charles Graham AIA
Architect
O'Neal, Inc.
Greenville SC
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Original Message:
Sent: 03-12-2013 18:09
From: Daniel Seiser
Subject: Concrete Flatness / Levelness ASTM E 1122-87

Of course the contractors position statement wants to dump the hassle of floor flatness back on the Architect so we get the grumbles about the cost to correct sloppy or damaged work.  Keep the flatness obligation on the guys who bid and installed it and need to protect it until its ready for floor application.  They will be motivated to do a better job. The contractor position statement recomendation for an owner funded allowance rewards them for poor workmanship IMHO.

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Daniel Seiser AIA
President
Bezek Durst Seiser Inc
Anchorage AK
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As frustrating as it is to design and specify carefully, then have a builder agree to build to your documents, and then find your instructions disregarded (intentionally or neglectfully) and the contractor wanting to avoid the burden of fixing his mistake, it is the Owner's decision to make as to whether to accept the defective construction. If there was no ambiguity in the spec (i.e., the conflict between Divs. 3 & 9 discussed in the Position Paper), and the project will not suffer functionally or aesthetically, then the Owner is certainly entitled to a credit in the amount that it would cost the Contractor (or someone else) to fix the mistake, which could be an amount hefty enough to --as Daniel says-- motivate them to do a better job in the future. And that you should push for.

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Joseph Bernard AIA, LEED AP, JD
Mamaroneck, NY
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Original Message:
Sent: 03-13-2013 22:08
From: Charles Graham
Subject: Concrete Flatness / Levelness ASTM E 1122-87

I agree with Daniel. We all know who the ASCC represents.

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Charles Graham AIA
Architect
O'Neal, Inc.
Greenville SC
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Original Message:
Sent: 03-12-2013 18:09
From: Daniel Seiser
Subject: Concrete Flatness / Levelness ASTM E 1122-87

Of course the contractors position statement wants to dump the hassle of floor flatness back on the Architect so we get the grumbles about the cost to correct sloppy or damaged work.  Keep the flatness obligation on the guys who bid and installed it and need to protect it until its ready for floor application.  They will be motivated to do a better job. The contractor position statement recomendation for an owner funded allowance rewards them for poor workmanship IMHO.

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Daniel Seiser AIA
President
Bezek Durst Seiser Inc
Anchorage AK
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Read your structural engineer's specifications BEFORE they are issued! LOL

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Charles Graham AIA
Architect
O'Neal, Inc.
Greenville SC
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