Housing and Community Development

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Housing Knowledge Community and Custom Residential Architects Network .
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I have a project where the existing exposed 12" CMU foundation walls will be covered with natural veneer stone.  Unfortunately, the floor framing above is cantilevered out over the foundation.  To make things right, I need to get the inside face of the stone about 4" out from the block.  I am considering applying (2) layers of 2" rigid foam to the block using fasteners and mastic prescribed in EFIS (i.e. Dryvit) applications but in lieu of the synthetic stucco, adhere the stone with the use of mesh or cement board.  Has anyone ever attempted this?  I am in Maryland where we have both hot and cold temperatures. 

I thank you for any guidance or suggestions in this non-typical installation..

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John Lehman AIA
Lehman Associates, PC
Highland MD
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John,
I have completed several projects like you have described, I use treated 2x lumber 4's 6's etc like a furred wood wall up against the CMU, bolted to the CMU then we use spray foam to fill the cavity. After this process is completed we can install paper backed ribbed lath as if we were going to stucco the wall. We start the install of the stone veneer using tie wire tied to the ribbed lath to hold the stone in place until motar has cured. Oh yes we use a latex additive in the motar mix to allow for movement in the joints of the stone to avoid cracking should there be movement.

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Stephen Cook
President
Cook Construction Company
Canoga Park CA
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Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2013 18:40
From: John Lehman
Subject: Veneer stone on Expanded Polystyrene?

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Housing Knowledge Community and Custom Residential Architects Network .
-------------------------------------------
I have a project where the existing exposed 12" CMU foundation walls will be covered with natural veneer stone.  Unfortunately, the floor framing above is cantilevered out over the foundation.  To make things right, I need to get the inside face of the stone about 4" out from the block.  I am considering applying (2) layers of 2" rigid foam to the block using fasteners and mastic prescribed in EFIS (i.e. Dryvit) applications but in lieu of the synthetic stucco, adhere the stone with the use of mesh or cement board.  Has anyone ever attempted this?  I am in Maryland where we have both hot and cold temperatures. 

I thank you for any guidance or suggestions in this non-typical installation..

-------------------------------------------
John Lehman AIA
Lehman Associates, PC
Highland MD
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I live in hot, humid southern US.  For my area, I would be very careful to vent the interior of the wall to handle moisture coming through the wall - in both directions (interior and exterior), depending upon the season.  Considering my area, I would not put the sprayed insulation directly on the block, etc. - that is if I understood your description of construction layering.

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Richard Barron AIA
Jackson MS
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-01-2013 21:04
From: Stephen Cook
Subject: Veneer stone on Expanded Polystyrene?

John,
I have completed several projects like you have described, I use treated 2x lumber 4's 6's etc like a furred wood wall up against the CMU, bolted to the CMU then we use spray foam to fill the cavity. After this process is completed we can install paper backed ribbed lath as if we were going to stucco the wall. We start the install of the stone veneer using tie wire tied to the ribbed lath to hold the stone in place until motar has cured. Oh yes we use a latex additive in the motar mix to allow for movement in the joints of the stone to avoid cracking should there be movement.

-------------------------------------------
Stephen Cook
President
Cook Construction Company
Canoga Park CA
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2013 18:40
From: John Lehman
Subject: Veneer stone on Expanded Polystyrene?

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Housing Knowledge Community and Custom Residential Architects Network .
-------------------------------------------
I have a project where the existing exposed 12" CMU foundation walls will be covered with natural veneer stone.  Unfortunately, the floor framing above is cantilevered out over the foundation.  To make things right, I need to get the inside face of the stone about 4" out from the block.  I am considering applying (2) layers of 2" rigid foam to the block using fasteners and mastic prescribed in EFIS (i.e. Dryvit) applications but in lieu of the synthetic stucco, adhere the stone with the use of mesh or cement board.  Has anyone ever attempted this?  I am in Maryland where we have both hot and cold temperatures. 

I thank you for any guidance or suggestions in this non-typical installation..

-------------------------------------------
John Lehman AIA
Lehman Associates, PC
Highland MD
-------------------------------------------

Are you using real or manufactured stone?  Eldorado Stone is a product I specify often and their installation instructions limit the thickness to 1".  The concern is the weight of the stone and the shear pressure applied to the fasteners anchoring the insulation to the wall.  There is a stone industry which has a table outlines the weight of the stone and the required fabricators.  For the thickness you are thinking adding a 4" brick ledge may be the way to go or provide an attractive offset detail in wood/CPVC. You see many older homes with slight offsets between floors with similar details.

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Robert Emert AIA
Component past president
Robert G. Emert Architect, Inc.
Livingston NJ
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Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2013 18:40
From: John Lehman
Subject: Veneer stone on Expanded Polystyrene?

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Housing Knowledge Community and Custom Residential Architects Network .
-------------------------------------------
I have a project where the existing exposed 12" CMU foundation walls will be covered with natural veneer stone.  Unfortunately, the floor framing above is cantilevered out over the foundation.  To make things right, I need to get the inside face of the stone about 4" out from the block.  I am considering applying (2) layers of 2" rigid foam to the block using fasteners and mastic prescribed in EFIS (i.e. Dryvit) applications but in lieu of the synthetic stucco, adhere the stone with the use of mesh or cement board.  Has anyone ever attempted this?  I am in Maryland where we have both hot and cold temperatures. 

I thank you for any guidance or suggestions in this non-typical installation..

-------------------------------------------
John Lehman AIA
Lehman Associates, PC
Highland MD
-------------------------------------------

Try Luck Stone Master Cut
A good company with good details.
I have have had good results with Cultured Stone as well. I think they are owned by one of the big boys now.
http://www.charlesluck.com/products/type/veneer-mastercuttm

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Donald Duffy AIA
Don Duffy Architecture
Charlotte NC
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-02-2013 09:23
From: Robert Emert
Subject: Veneer stone on Expanded Polystyrene?

Are you using real or manufactured stone?  Eldorado Stone is a product I specify often and their installation instructions limit the thickness to 1".  The concern is the weight of the stone and the shear pressure applied to the fasteners anchoring the insulation to the wall.  There is a stone industry which has a table outlines the weight of the stone and the required fabricators.  For the thickness you are thinking adding a 4" brick ledge may be the way to go or provide an attractive offset detail in wood/CPVC. You see many older homes with slight offsets between floors with similar details.

-------------------------------------------
Robert Emert AIA
Component past president
Robert G. Emert Architect, Inc.
Livingston NJ
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2013 18:40
From: John Lehman
Subject: Veneer stone on Expanded Polystyrene?

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Housing Knowledge Community and Custom Residential Architects Network .
-------------------------------------------
I have a project where the existing exposed 12" CMU foundation walls will be covered with natural veneer stone.  Unfortunately, the floor framing above is cantilevered out over the foundation.  To make things right, I need to get the inside face of the stone about 4" out from the block.  I am considering applying (2) layers of 2" rigid foam to the block using fasteners and mastic prescribed in EFIS (i.e. Dryvit) applications but in lieu of the synthetic stucco, adhere the stone with the use of mesh or cement board.  Has anyone ever attempted this?  I am in Maryland where we have both hot and cold temperatures. 

I thank you for any guidance or suggestions in this non-typical installation..

-------------------------------------------
John Lehman AIA
Lehman Associates, PC
Highland MD
-------------------------------------------

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Robert De Santis AIA
Kaplan Gaunt DeSantis Architects
Red Bank NJ
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They all take water so pay attention to a drainage plain and weeping.





Original Message:
Sent: 08-05-2013 17:40
From: Donald Duffy
Subject: Veneer stone on Expanded Polystyrene?

Try Luck Stone Master Cut
A good company with good details.
I have have had good results with Cultured Stone as well. I think they are owned by one of the big boys now.
http://www.charlesluck.com/products/type/veneer-mastercuttm

-------------------------------------------
Donald Duffy AIA
Don Duffy Architecture
Charlotte NC
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 08-02-2013 09:23
From: Robert Emert
Subject: Veneer stone on Expanded Polystyrene?

Are you using real or manufactured stone?  Eldorado Stone is a product I specify often and their installation instructions limit the thickness to 1".  The concern is the weight of the stone and the shear pressure applied to the fasteners anchoring the insulation to the wall.  There is a stone industry which has a table outlines the weight of the stone and the required fabricators.  For the thickness you are thinking adding a 4" brick ledge may be the way to go or provide an attractive offset detail in wood/CPVC. You see many older homes with slight offsets between floors with similar details.

-------------------------------------------
Robert Emert AIA
Component past president
Robert G. Emert Architect, Inc.
Livingston NJ
-------------------------------------------






Original Message:
Sent: 07-31-2013 18:40
From: John Lehman
Subject: Veneer stone on Expanded Polystyrene?

This message has been cross posted to the following Discussion Forums: Housing Knowledge Community and Custom Residential Architects Network .
-------------------------------------------
I have a project where the existing exposed 12" CMU foundation walls will be covered with natural veneer stone.  Unfortunately, the floor framing above is cantilevered out over the foundation.  To make things right, I need to get the inside face of the stone about 4" out from the block.  I am considering applying (2) layers of 2" rigid foam to the block using fasteners and mastic prescribed in EFIS (i.e. Dryvit) applications but in lieu of the synthetic stucco, adhere the stone with the use of mesh or cement board.  Has anyone ever attempted this?  I am in Maryland where we have both hot and cold temperatures. 

I thank you for any guidance or suggestions in this non-typical installation..

-------------------------------------------
John Lehman AIA
Lehman Associates, PC
Highland MD
-------------------------------------------